Tube Stoes: Real-Word Factual Experiences

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

It's possible that the tube stows were improperly installed (although I don't know how you can install them improperly to cause a bag-lock).

If the 'joint' where the tubing connects to its self to make an "O" is not on the bag side or in other words, positioned so that it can't go through a rommet, it can cause a bag lock.

Derek

[DanG 1]

I've used tube stoes on both my rigs for 100's of jumps. The only time I ever had a problem was when an inexperinced packer double wrapped my non-locking tube stoes. Had the bag hang up and thought a bag lock was imminent, but the tube stoe broke and the canopy opened. Happened twice in a row until I asked the packer WTF.

Otherwise, I swear by tube stoes because I usually pack for myself and changing a rubber band every other jump slows me down.

- Dan G

[dterrick 0]

heya Hook!

I can go one better than double stows... try a triple someday!

Yes, I did. Really. After doing damn near everything to slow down the openings of my Raven, and under the semi-watchful eyes of my rigger, I tried this experiment. The issue was a 7 cell with microlines and those black elastics which stretch, deform, and then lose tension. They were great for a dozen jumps and then I'd get enough slammers in a weekend to put me on my Chiropractor's "10 best" list. Keep in mind we ARE talking about a canopy with both an inherent design 'feature' and a long past history for brisk openings.

I swear that I felt every 'tug' on the harness as the triple-stowed lines screamed "let me out!" ... of course I was pulling high for the experiment and I'm glad I did. That was quite possibly as close to a baglock as I've come.

Afterward (the last 125 jumps or so) I went to the 1" or 1 1/4" standard elastic, single stowed all around. I can't remember having a slammer or a borderline baclock since. I ALWAYS have comments from people wondering why I don't just use a larger elastic and double stow... "because those tiny elastics are such a pain". I explain that their pain at packing time is less painful than the alternative has been.

As far as I'm concerned (not like I'm a rigger, I just play one on TV ) the right stow band is the one that does NOT need to be doubled.

...as for thinking about avoided incidents, I can only say that my personal experience has been "more than one". Nice sig!

-Dave

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[jerm 0]

Quote

Quote

Regular rubberband, double-wrapped locking stow.

I cringe when I see that, sure folks have done it for years, but IMHO you're just asking to get lines caught up. If you get the "lucky" band that nice and strong, that doesn't break, then there you are a bag lock.

Atleast you can cut-away from a bag lock, you may not be able to cut away from a bag-strip opening. You may be too hurt to actually do it.

so which is it? you seem to argue both sides here... personally i'd rather a baglock than a killer opening.

i say that having had a high-speed mal before.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[riddler 0]

Quote

After doing damn near everything to slow down the openings of my Raven, and under the semi-watchful eyes of my rigger, I tried this experiment.

Putting tighter line stows isn't going to prevent slammer openings. At the very least, it's going to give you line twists, as the deploying bag has to fight (and spin) to get unstuck from the stows. At the most, you've got a bag-lock. Either way, it doesn't help.

The impact of opening comes mostly from the time the canopy first comes out of the bag until it fully deploys. For most hard openings, changing the size of your slider, or adding a pocket to the slider is going to give the best chance of preventing hard openings, because it will slow down the opening time of the canopy. Rolling the tail and/or nose can delay the time it takes for the canopy to open, but will give you less consistent results on opening.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[jerm 0]

Quote

So, I should have quantified what I was stating. Double-wrapping rubberbands on a modern sport rig with micro lines is asking for a bag lock.

really? PD recomments at least 8lb of pull-force to get a stow to come out, that's enough to lift the bag of most modern sport canopies by the lines. How do you suggest achieving proper tension w/o double-wrapping?

thousands upon thousands of test jumps with double stowing, even the locking stows, and not an issue.

hm.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[AggieDave 6]

Firstly, I felt like what I stated was pretty clear in that I'd rather have a bag log then bag strip; however, I would rather have neither and that can be achieved.

Quote

How do you suggest achieving proper tension w/o double-wrapping?

This is going to sound simplistic, since the answer really is. Use the rigith sized rubberbands.

Even then, the stows that truely matter are the locking stows, the rest of the stows are there to just keep things organized. The locking stows are the stows that prevent bag strip.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[alan 1]

Quote

Putting tighter line stows isn't going to prevent slammer openings.

Yes, I agree. I think that many jumpers don't have a basic understanding of the opening sequence and the forces involved. I'm not an expert and don't have a degree in Physics but reading Poynter helps. Snatch force occors first and stands the jumper up. The snivel phase occurs after the canopy leaves the D-bag and just before opening shock which comes at full inflation. In my opinion, so much emphasis has been placed on soft openings, that manufacturers have unnecessarily made the snivel phase excessively long on the newer canopy designs becuase so many jumpers associate a long snivel with a soft opening.

alan

[bsoder 0]

Is there any reason to not mix and match? use tube stoes on some and bands on the others? There might well be a reason, just curious.

[alan 1]

Aside from the debate about breaking and not breaking...baglock, etc., if you want to use tube stowes or bands is a personal decision. Some may choose to use both on the same D-bag and I would advise caution (read as don't do it) if you do choose to do this. The idea is to have even tension on each line bite as they release to help prevent or minimize line twists. This is the same as not putting a large band on one side for a bite of lines and a small one across from it. The stowe bands just help the lines pay out in a neat and orderly fashion until linestetch. At line stretch, and only at line stretch, should the locking stowes release, allowing the canopy to come out of the D-bag.

Personally, I just use the small (1" or 1 1/4") mil spec rubber bands all the way around and I treat them periodocally with silicone like that used on a CYPRES loop. It extends the life of the band to that of tube stowes or longer and the lines pay out nicely. If the canopy is a tight fit in the bag, I use the lager bands on the locking stowes because I may need to stretch them more to get them through the grommets.

alan

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

Is there any reason to not mix and match? use tube stoes on some and bands on the others?

Using tube stows only for the middle locking stows is common.

Having uneven release/unstow force on different sides of the bag would promote line twists, but the critical locking stows are in the middle of the bag and the end of the process, so less likely to cause line twists whether they are rubber bands or tube stows.

I find it very difficult to work with tube stows small enough for the last stows, but there is no way I'm going back to wimpy rubber bands for the critical locking stows.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[fundgh 0]

I have a Mirage and the d-bag has 4 locking stows. 3 out of 4 are Tube stows, 1 is a rubberband. I use 1 rubberband because I cant stretch a tube stow easily enough to get the first stow done. I also use rubberbands for stowing lines. They are easier to use, and not very critical.

David

...FUN FOR ALL!