Stowing lines.

[atsaubrey 0]

I'm confused on double wraping lines during packing. I replaced all my bands (large) today and still needed to double wrap the last four. Is this acceptable or am I awaiting a potential bag lock? I use large bands and the last four stows were too loose in my opinion. Should I go to the small bands? I don't know what type of lines they are but it is a military XX canopy and has lines the size of a tandem, if that helps. The large bands work fine until I get past the cascades. Is 1, 2, 3, 4, all of them acceptible to be double wrapped?

"GOT LEAD?"

[mjosparky 3]

You can double stow them or leave them with a single. Either way will work. A stow band by its self will not cause a bag lock. If the pilot chute is in good shape, the band will break if it does not release.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[phoenixlpr 0]

I would ask a rigger if I were you.

We use normal bands with PD Navigator and always double wrap them.

IMHO with lines its always about tension and not about double wrap.

[Hooknswoop 19]

My one and only bag-lock was on a tandem and was caused by the bands being double-wrapped. If you have to double-wrap, use smaller bands.

Derek

[ChrisL 2]

Mine are the same way.

The first two locking stows get a single wrap. All the rest get a double wrap or they are far too loose.
I dont want a line dump.
This has not caused me any problems.

The PC generates more than enough pull to unstow them.
I've had packers suggest small bands but I find that with my big klunky hands they make packing much more difficult.

__

My mighty steed

[Harksaw 0]

The rule of thumb I go by is that it should take roughly the same amount of force to unstow each line stow. If it is too loose, either get a smaller band or double wrap it.

As to what is too loose or too tight, you'd need to ask someone to show you as that is difficult over a message board. I remember in Parachutist they said 8-12 pounds of force. (Which you can't scientifically measure, you've really just got to have somebody show you)

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[ChrisL 2]

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I remember in Parachutist they said 8-12 pounds of force. (Which you can't scientifically measure, you've really just got to have somebody show you)

Of course you can measure it. You just need a pull type scale.

__

My mighty steed

[riggerrob 561]

I remember in Parachutist they said 8-12 pounds of force. (Which you can't scientifically measure, you've really just got to have somebody show you)

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Hee! Hee!
His MXX canopy should be in the 8 to 12 pound range. If he can almost pick up the d-bag by his lines, his rubber bands should be about the correct tension.

More in the 18 to 20 pound range.
Did Joe call you?
Sparky

Atsaubrey,
Lot of advise from 100 jump wonders.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I have never heard of rubber bands causing bag lock, unless you do something stupid like installing - ridiculously wide - Tandem Vector rubber bands on a solo rig.

I had a bag lock on a tandem Vector and it wasn't the tandem bands, but the large sport rig bands. It bag-locked because of the double stows. On the ground I pulled like mad to get them to un-stow. I was never a fan of double wrapping and that incident convinced me even more.

Line dump does not equal hard opening. bag strip does. Some people 'free-stow' their lines, stowing only the locking stows.

Derek

[councilman24 36]

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I've had packers suggest small bands but I find that with my big klunky hands they make packing much more difficult.

Do you want it easy or do you want it right? Take some good advice when it's given.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[atsaubrey 0]

So would it be ok to use big bands on the loaking stows and small bands on the others? Is there any issues with doing it this way? Any other ideas? (I'm in the stage of "gear fear", but i'm getting better)

"GOT LEAD?"

[riggerrob 561]

Did Joe call you?
Sparky

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No. I am still waiting to hear from Peckerhead Joe Crotwell or Dennis Trepanier.

[councilman24 36]

Yep, For the locking stows your holding twice as many lines, for canopies with cascaded lines. Depending on the rig and number of locking stows. My four grommet bag has big rubber bands on the center two (first two) locking stows. By then I've gotten to the cascades. The outside two (third and fourth) locking stows and the rest have small bands. For 800 lb microline.

I've never thought much of double stowing but we used to, especially when there weren't small rubber bands available. I'd be more concerned about the length of the stows ... not so long that a loop from one stow can go over the stow next to it. I see lots of newer skydivers with 4 or 5 inch floppy stows that scare me. I'd also worry more about the extra line between the last stow and the risers. I see lots of line left and people not paying attention to where it's going.

Of couse there use to be the folks that didn't stow any lines. Curl them up in the bottom of the container. Maybe a diaper on the tail of the main, maybe not.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[FrogNog 1]

I have been told, in part by some riggers, that double-stowing rubber bands isn't likely to cause a baglock unless it's done on a grommet, AND the grommet size and rubber band size work together to make a sort of knot.

Unfortunately, I don't know whether it's a large rubber band and a small grommet or a small rubber band and a large grommet or what. But my own 2-part rule of thumb has been:
* like everyone here has said, line tension is important. Goldilocks' rule here.
* for locking stows, only single-stowing is acceptable; change bands or packing technique to alter line tension. For non-locking stows, do whatever you want to get the right line tension.

But, I've only been doing this for like 140 jumps. And luck could be covering up my rubber band idiocy.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Hooknswoop 19]

My tandem bag lock wasn't on a stow that the band went through a grommet.

If line tension was so important, the new 'no-stow' d-bags would cause hard openings, they don't.

Derek

[mjosparky 3]

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Did Joe call you?
Sparky

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No. I am still waiting to hear from Peckerhead Joe Crotwell or Dennis Trepanier.

I'll check with Joe before I leave for Perris.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[caldwellbuilder 0]

The first 300 Strato-Flyer owners(I was one) were
asked to evaluate deployments utilizing just two
locking stows on the mouth of the deployment bag
and to simply coil(neatly) the remaining lines in the
bottom of the container. Para-Flite asked us to
make 100 jumps utilizing this method and then
send in a reply form. I had no problems or hard
openings, etc... Para-Flite was able, in theory, to
get 30000 test jumps very quickly and used this
info to justify the currently standard reserve deployment bag which stows the lines in a velcro pouch. As a result, I would propose using a system
that evenly loads the lines and in my opinion, a
rubber band that only needs a single wrap is the
best option. I use large tube stows to lock the bag
and 11/4" bands for the remainder with about 11/2"
bites past the rubber bands. It works well for me.

[alan 1]

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In Reply To
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Did Joe call you?
Sparky

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No. I am still waiting to hear from Peckerhead Joe Crotwell or Dennis Trepanier.

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I'll check with Joe before I leave for Perris.
Sparky

Please don't forget to let us know what is new with Joe and why it is taking him so long to get back to Rob.

alan