henrik.anderson 0 #1 April 23, 2004 Should I go for a Katana-120 or a Samurai-120? I have now a Vengeance-120 and have previously had a Velocity-120 , Stiletto-135 and Bluetrac-150. Please give me some input. Regards /Henrik Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #2 April 23, 2004 Hi Henrik! It would really help you and us if you filled out your profile. Then we might be able to find out important information that would help us make a recommendation: -wingloading -experience level (# of jumps) Also, what is your DZ elevation above sea level? Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
henrik.anderson 0 #3 April 23, 2004 I have about 1500 jumps and is about 220 lb out the door, I was satified by the velocity-120 but I didn't like the openings. So I am thinking Samurai-120 or katana-120. Elevation of my home dz would be something like 1000'. /Henrik Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #4 April 23, 2004 Specifically to answer your question. The Sam 120 and Kat 120 are almost identical except for a few things. I believe the Kat has a longer line set. The Sam, of course is air-locked, whereas the Kat isn't. The Sam is using Vectran brake lines to foster good trim over the life of the lines. From what I understand those are the ONLY deviations between the two construction-wise. I haven't flown the Katana, but I am now a staunch supporter of airlocks after going from Stiletto to Samurai and being in a situation where having a solid, rigid canopy (Sam 105) saved my ass (literally). Oh yea, when people bitch about air-locked canopies on windy days after landing, they just don't know what they're doing :> -Rory QuoteI have about 1500 jumps and is about 220 lb out the door, I was satified by the velocity-120 but I didn't like the openings. So I am thinking Samurai-120 or katana-120. Elevation of my home dz would be something like 1000'. /Henrik You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #5 April 23, 2004 QuoteSpecifically to answer your question. The Sam 120 and Kat 120 are almost identical except for a few things. I believe the Kat has a longer line set. The Sam, of course is air-locked, whereas the Kat isn't. The Sam is using Vectran brake lines to foster good trim over the life of the lines. From what I understand those are the ONLY deviations between the two construction-wise. I think Brian has gone back to using Spectra for the brake lines on the Sam now QuoteI haven't flown the Katana, but I am now a staunch supporter of airlocks I'm still waiting to see if there is anyone that could compare the flight characteristics of the two canopies._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeeeeeeFly 0 #6 April 23, 2004 Have you tried an FX 120? I flew the Velocity for awhile and didn't like it for the openings either. But the FX on the other hand has completely different openings. I usually psycho pack it and 98% of the time I am on heading. The Velocity was great except when it came out of the bag, once inflated it was great. I just hated the 50/50 after deploying... Check out a FX... ~G~ "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #7 April 23, 2004 I've recently demoed the Samurai 105 and the Katana 120. The Samurai was loaded at about 1.68, the Katana to 1.47. They are quite different, and not just because of the size (I also tried a Stiletto 97 which handled almost the same as my Stiletto 135, just faster/quicker). What is it that you don't like about your Velocity openings? Openings on the Samurai were brisk/firm, except two solo jumps where I didn't have any extra speed (not tracking, falling flat). Those two openings were quick and very nice. 8 out of 9 jumps were close to on heading. A representative opening was one which was on heading until the last instant, when the canopy turned 15-20 degrees to the right, easily steered back to on heading with harness. One opening had a bit of a diving turn to the left, but I'll blame that on packing or something. The openings coming out of a short track (4-way) were as firm as I would like. Not quite hard, but I wouldn't want them any harder. Two other jumpers who tried the Samurai for one jump each commented on the firmness of the opening. If I buy one, I'd want to get that figured out, with a change in packing, slider, or something. Riser turns were nice. Less pressure than my Stiletto, and less pressure buildup during the turn/dive. No canopy flutter during turns, felt right. Significantly longer recovery arc than the Stiletto. Harness steer was nice. The spot on one jump made it an upwind run the whole way, and I did a couple of small turns back and forth on final using small harness inputs. Landings were fine. I was glad to have a bit of wind for my first day, then very little on the next day. Significantly more bottom-end flare than a Stiletto. Easy transition to make, but I need more practice. The Katana has a slow, soft opening, even coming out of a longer track, slower than my Stiletto. Even after the canopy is mostly open, the slider is slow to come down. Then front corners of the canopy are still held in a bit, then the slider gently slides down over a period of about 1 second. Openings are more on heading than for a Stiletto, but not as on heading as the Samurai. Trim is steeper, but you can float pretty well on either rear risers or brakes. I had a fair amount of wind and traffic for the 8 jumps on the Katana, so I didn't get to explore its flight characteristics quite as much as the Samurai. I really liked my first landing, with about 140 degrees gentle riser turn. One later jumps, I noticed a characteristic of this canopy that I didn't like. My typical landing was a gentle carving 180. Front riser pressure started light and stayed pretty light. As I got into the turn, the rate of turn would decrease, unless I either added a bit of harness steer or added more front riser deflection. I'm not talking about adding more front riser pressure, which I would expect, but actually having to pull the front riser down further. Also, the left end of the canopy was bucking a bit in this gentle carve, similar to the way a canopy with too short brakes will buck on double fronts. The brake setting didn't seem short on the Katana, however. At first I thought I was just hearing the slider flapping more, but then looked up and saw that the left end of the canopy was the real noise source. I don't know whether this is a characteristic of the Katana 120, of this particular canopy, or of the loading at which I jumped it, but it was unacceptable to me. Maybe a more aggressive turn would have been smoother, but I don't do those. Landing flare was better than a Stiletto. Recover arc may be similar to the Samurai. It seemed less, but the Katana was more lightly loaded. I have a Katana 107 demo coming sometime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattoojeff 0 #8 April 24, 2004 just out of curiosity why are you taking a step back from x-braced to looking into non x-braced. is it a currency thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
henrik.anderson 0 #9 May 3, 2004 Me my fool believed that the vengeance should open better, the velocity-120 that I jumped did open like a bag of skates... I think there is something wrong when the most exiting with a jump is the opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #10 May 3, 2004 Sorry you had that experience on openings, can't say I've had the same on the 103, 96, 90 and 84's I've jumped. In fact they've been one of the nicer opening canopies I've owned. Of course if you *fight* the openings you're in for a rough ride Have you tried another velo - maybe you just got a dud? Blue ones, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #11 May 3, 2004 QuoteThe Sam 120 and Kat 120 are almost identical except for a few things. ... QuoteI haven't flown the Katana What's up Rory? Hate to say this, but if you haven't flown the Katana how do you know they're almost identical? I now have about 160 jumps on a Katana 120 and about 15 jumps on a Sam 105 so the best Katana-Samurai comparison I can do is to compare these two different sizes. I won't comment about openings because the Samurai I was jumping had an H-mod on it. In full flight the Samurai was a little bit fast and responded a bit more to toggle inputs (makes sense, it's smaller.) The Katana had lighter front and rear riser pressure. I found the larger Katana easier to dive and found that it built up more speed and kept more speed throughout the dive. I also found the Katana to have more bottom end to the flare. The Samurai definitely felt a bit more solid above my head in full flight (I'm sure due to the airlocks) but both felt pretty similar in breaks. Landing straight in I found the Katana much easier to shut down. Swooping I was able to go faster and swoop farther under the Katana as well (although I have that canopy much more dialed in.) Overall I found the Samurai to be a really nice canopy and found the Sam 105 to fly similarly (but definitely not the same) to the Katana 120. They are both definitely the same class of canopy although I prefer the Katana.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
