FrogNog 1 #26 March 25, 2004 QuoteQuote The Pull-Out version of a PC-in-tow is called "floating PUD". Except, of course, that if you have a "floating PUD" and you choose to immediatly fire your reserve or your cypres fires, your main container is closed and there is almost no risk of a main reserve entanglement. t I have to admit this scenario is way rosier than the comparable throw-out scenario(s). -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #27 March 25, 2004 QuoteYou really don't know what you are talking about. Please don't make skygod statments like that!#$% I know you are 2K jump wonder. Lose the attitude. And yes I do know what I am talking about. And so do about 90% percent of the skydivers who use the BOC deployment method. Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #28 March 25, 2004 Well he has a point, and he didn't an attitude. He is probably anoyed at the same arguments that are being used over and over again, with people coping each other. I agree with the others that a pull-out isn't an out of sequence deployment. Why should the pilot be gone first? Like said before, what about students ripcords, pre-handdeyployed or reserves? And about trowing it out. I've never seen a trow-out been trown out of de burble. So you both release it in your burble. It is true however that I see a lot of too long pull-out bridles out there. Keep it short and your hand is near the pilot so you can trow it away.The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seal_S49 0 #29 March 25, 2004 QuoteAnd yes I do know what I am talking about. And so do about 90% percent of the skydivers who use the BOC deployment method. Congratulations, you meet the definition of a "follower." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #30 March 25, 2004 QuotePlease don't make skygod statments like that!#$% I know you are 2K jump wonder. Lose the attitude. Scott if you thought I was giving you an attitude, that's your problem. Making a statement like you did showed you do not know what you are talking about. How many jumps exactly do you have on a Pullout? How do you arrive at the 90% figure for the number of jumpers that use a throw out system? I would sugest instead of being an instant expert in everything, slow down and learn a little. You'll enjoy it more.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #31 March 25, 2004 QuotePlease don't make skygod statments like that!#$% I know you are 2K jump wonder. Lose the attitude. And yes I do know what I am talking about. And so do about 90% percent of the skydivers who use the BOC deployment method. That wasn't a skygod statment and JP isn't a 2000 jump wnoder. He is very knowledgable about gear and jumps the system himself. In fact you are wrong Scott! You can get a Pull out in to the wind just as far as you can a B.O.C. A pull out is not an out of sequence opening! I have a bunch of jumps on a Rip Cord set up. The pin is pulled before the PC ever hits the wind! It is just fine that way. Get rid of your 100 jump wonder attitude and listen to what people tha know are saying. Quite giving "FACTS" that aren't! Do you ever wonder why you catch so much shit in these forums? IT is because you are always putting you foot in your mouth. This is not ment as a personal attack this is once again an attempt to help you see why you catch so much flak. You have said before that you don't take this stuff seriously, well most of us do. So keep that in mind and you may make more friends around here. This is for some of us what we do for a living and the sport is our lives. Respect that and you may get some respect back!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #32 March 25, 2004 QuotePlease don't make skygod statments like that!#$% I know you are 2K jump wonder. Lose the attitude. Ummm, no, you're wrong, that wasn't a skygod statement, that was a statement of fact. QuoteAnd so do about 90% percent of the skydivers who use the BOC deployment method. Wrong again. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #33 March 26, 2004 QuoteThis is not ment as a personal attack this is once again an attempt to help you see why you catch so much flak. LMAO! Well, I'm glad I have you... to kick me down some knowledge bro! At this point, this thread is losing focus of the topic. You are simply trying to hurt my feelings, instead of acting like a rational adult. Simply stating facts is not putting my foot in my mouth. That is just your opinion. I've had more conversations with Jump Masters and Riggers a like about this debate, and you think I'm making up facts, why then, do so many people use BOC since Pull Outs were around before BOC? I could understand people wanting Pull Outs instead of ROL but thats a totally different debate. Once again, leave the personal attacks out. I'm not going to post on this thread anymore because a lot of you don't have the right attitude to discuss the facts like adults. Get a life. I'm outta here! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #34 March 26, 2004 QuoteSimply stating facts is not putting my foot in my mouth. That is just your opinion. Problem is that they're not FACTS. It's information to definately consider but that does not make it a fact. What you haven't seemed to grasp is that both systems have pro's and cons. As in most things in life, it's often a tradeoff. If it was as clear cut as you state, one of the systems would fall away. Blue ones, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #35 March 26, 2004 QuoteI'm not going to post on this thread anymore because a lot of you don't have the right attitude to discuss the facts like adults. oops.. I just posted a one liner.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #36 March 26, 2004 Statics are pulled out by the plane, Reserves and student ripcords spring driven. Pullouts are not spring driven. Would you jump a reserve without PC spring?The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fool 0 #37 March 26, 2004 that's totally different... with pull out, you still place the pc in clean air when done properly. I think both systems are fine when operated properly... when you get complacent, or lazy, both systems can fail. We could sit here and debate one or the other for days and not agree on which one is better. I think with the pros and cons weighed for both of them, whichever decision the individual goes for, is the right one for them. Both work, both sometimes don't. The only difference really, is the deployment order, and the more likely mals you can have. I personally went with the pull out, just because I was following a lot of CRW loads, and wanted the faster deployment, as well as the less likely chance of a premature in freefall, and horseshoe. I can deal with a floating pud if it comes to that. That's just me though... different strokes for different folks. Educate, and make your own decision. and yeah, sorry about the length of this one... the first part was directed at your post, the rest was just me thinking out loud so to speak. S.E.X. party #1 "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #38 March 26, 2004 Quote Would you jump a reserve without PC spring? Come on now. No comparison. That's just silly. Earlier stated... grab the handle and pull it to full arm extension and let go. It's that simple.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #39 March 26, 2004 QuoteQuote Would you jump a reserve without PC spring? Come on now. No comparison. That's just silly. I have been told by a few of the Baglanders that there were hand deployed reserves._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #40 March 26, 2004 Quote And yes I do know what I am talking about. And so do about 90% percent of the skydivers who use the BOC deployment method. You sure about that? Do a search on this forum. Do a search on rec.skydiving. This debate has been waged as many times as aad's, rsl's, etc....some share your opinion, others don't. There will never be a definite answer and you will see this discussed by another noob in just a few months. btw - I didn't see jp giving you any attitude - he disagreed with what you had to say, and he happened to be right on._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #41 March 26, 2004 Quote I have been told by a few of the Baglanders that there were hand deployed reserves. Reserves are very dependable. Is that what you mean? What'a baglander?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #42 March 26, 2004 QuoteQuote I have been told by a few of the Baglanders that there were hand deployed reserves. Reserves are very dependable. Is that what you mean? What'a baglander? Sorry - local term - they are the oldtimers at Skydive Chicago, originally from Skydive Sandwich. Just ask Rainbo. Most have been in the sport over 15 years. When I said hand-deployed reserve - I was told there was a handle over your left shoulder that you could grab and toss a PC into the wind to deploy your reserve. I've never seen one, but this is what I was told._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #43 March 26, 2004 Quotewhy then, do so many people use BOC since Pull Outs were around before BOC? Because no1 starts with pull-out. People tend to stick with what they have, which is a good thing for most people. Also I wouldn't recommend pull-out for any1 with less than let's say 200 jumps. It's more prone to packing errors and you have to know what you are jumping. But when operated correctly it can be a better alternative to trow-away (They are both Bottom Of Container), for a number of jumpers. QuoteSimply stating facts is not putting my foot in my mouth I've seen alot of opinions, have yet to come across facts. When people that you look up to state their opinion, it doesn't become a fact. Also repeating other people's opinion is a dangerous thing, if you don't have the background to support their opinion. QuoteI'm not going to post on this thread anymore because a lot of you don't have the right attitude to discuss the facts like adults. Now you are offending me, and personally you downgraded your entire discussion. QuoteGet a life. Now you're contradicting yourself. You're accusing us of not being able to discuss like adults?The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #44 March 26, 2004 Aren't you refering to a last-hope rope?The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #45 March 26, 2004 Quote Aren't you refering to a last-hope rope? I think it was called the Jeasus cord in the UK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #46 March 26, 2004 QuoteHow many jumps exactly do you have on a Pullout? + 1000? (OK the question wasn't directed at me. Just choose this post to jump in the discussion. Let the record show etcetera...) On my new rig I went from pull-out to bottom of container and on my old rig I had the pull-out replaced by a BOC. This, while all my personal rigs since 1984 had a pull-out. (Talk about late conversions...) Of course there is a reason - I'll get to that at the end of the post. First let me say that I always have preferred pull-out in the past. Faster packing, simpler EP's, what more do you want? The main reason for converting my old rig is others occasionally jumping with it. Those others are / will be used to BOC and I don't want to close the pack every time someone else has jumped it. This is sort of 'streamlining the process' - you use it, you pack it and return it the way it was given to you. Besides, it had a pretty worn out F111 PC that had a bungee in stead of a 'true retractable' - tends to make people nervous when they open after less than 6 second freefall...Also, I might sell the rig in the future and "you youngsters shy away from unknown yet pretty safe parachute opening systems instead of meeting the new challenge" This said, why not have the new personal rig ordered with a pull-out? I did choose not to, since I was told and noticed myself that smaller, elliptical canopies "want perfect stability" to open nice and on heading. If you jump a pull-out with the pud attached to the bottom of the PC AND you have developed the habit of holding on to the pud until it is "jerked from your hand", invariably your right shoulder goes up and the left one goes down, loading your canopy unevenly. Experience with the new canopy in the old rig has teached me that I was "always unstable on opening..." - I couldn't get the 135 elliptical opening without doing a 180 or getting into a line-twist. Never had a problem with a bigger rectangular (170sq.ft)ZP canopy. It is hard to loose a habit and mine was simply to hold on to the PC with my right arm stretched out completely until the PC inflated. For me it is easier to pay more attention to perfect stability if there isn't anything pulling my right arm slightly up. (At least that was the reasoning) I do know that in some never heard of corners of the civilized world they build pull-outs with the pud attached to the top of the PC. I actually saw it but wasn't keen on it. Maybe I saw issues there that are non-exist but what can I say - I don't drink Pernod either... Now all I have to do is remember to throw it! Now all I have to do is remember to throw it! Now all I have to do is remember to throw it! "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bosveld 0 #47 March 26, 2004 Everybody just prooved one thing, as long as there is going to be skydiving people will debate pull-out vs. BOC People will come up and proove pro's and cons for both. I think try both, jump with what makes most sense to you. That's it! Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 37 #48 March 26, 2004 Quote Would you jump a reserve without PC spring? Actually saw one of those during the CRW World record last year. It was an Australian rig, and the guy had it because he thought he could have a better chance of getting the reserve into clean air if in a nasty wrap if he had more control of the pilot chute. It looked like a clean enough system - I wouldn't have a problem jumping that rig. W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #49 March 26, 2004 Ok I'll save the personal attack for the PM that will be coming. Fact. You don't know anything that you say you do. Fact. You like to piss people off. Fact. You have a bad attitude. Fact. I will never jump with you. Fact. I don't like you.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #50 March 26, 2004 Quote When I said hand-deployed reserve - I was told there was a handle over your left shoulder that you could grab and toss a PC into the wind to deploy your reserve. I've never seen one, but this is what I was told. Yes these did and probable still do exist.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
