benno 0 #1 March 30, 2007 Looking to start picking up some BASE gear, wondering about canopy sizing. I have just over 300 skydives, and am currently flying a Stiletto 135(1.3:1). I have about 150 jumps on that, and the rest on an old Sabre 170. I am very confident in my canopy piloting skills, landing set-up, deep brake flight etc., What size BASE canopy would be an ideal starter, yet something that's practical for the future?I weigh 165 lbs. Thanks for any help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SabreDave 0 #2 March 30, 2007 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=65 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=366457 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2729210;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Do a search, subject has been discussed to death. edited: to add thread from a few days agoSabreDave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac 1 #4 March 31, 2007 Nice to see you have done your research before you buy a BASE rig... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #5 March 31, 2007 The Stiletto will work fine as a BASE canopy. Yep.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #6 March 31, 2007 QuoteLooking to start picking up some BASE gear, wondering about canopy sizing. I have just over 300 skydives, and am currently flying a Stiletto 135(1.3:1). I have about 150 jumps on that, and the rest on an old Sabre 170. I am very confident in my canopy piloting skills, landing set-up, deep brake flight etc., What size BASE canopy would be an ideal starter, yet something that's practical for the future?I weigh 165 lbs. Thanks for any help. I`m also 165 , and i flying a 301squarefoot canopy(trollmdw285) could seams like a overkill in size but it`s works great for me.. But you could easilly go for a 240-260footer..i used to jump these sizes before i bought these one.. If you gonna do lots of slideroffjumps, thight landingareas..etc..i would go for a big one.. But that`s me..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #7 March 31, 2007 Ben, One thing about BASE jumping is while the deed stays pretty much the same (in general) the challenges facing folks starting BASE is ever evolving . . . You probably know there was a simpler time when we took the same canopy we used at the DZ and just went BASE jumping with it. These were generic 7-cell canopies that averaged about 220 sq ft in size. Now notice I said simpler, but I didn’t say better. The next thing that happened is lots of us who were of average size, suddenly found ourselves getting hurt while landing, and not because we weren't familiar with the canopies, (people started BASE, in the old days, usually with way more skydives than today) but because we weren't familiar with "BASE" conditions. For instance the turbulence caused by wind rotors suddenly became real and more than a short sentence mentioned (or often not mentioned) in some long ago first jump course. Our biggest mistake in the beginning was thinking we could jump downtown in pretty much the same conditions as we did at the drop zone. We thought that way for years, and we kept getting hurt, and we kept thinking, well, it's BASE jumping, and of course we are going to get hurt. It was the "price" you paid and part of the deal. The paradox we were caught in was the canopies we were using landed better if you could land them into some wind. So we actually waited on launch points just wishing the wind would come up. We were too ignorant to grasp the formula that wind + turbulence = plaster. That era ended (for our crew anyway) when on a rooftop one night we were lamenting the fact that while there was some wind, it was going the wrong way. Keep in mind that at the DZ the wind can determine the direction of landing, but on a BASE jump it's often dictated by the terrain, the obstacles, and your best chance of escaping. We were so comfortable with BASE jumping in winds that we had a pet name for getting bumped around on the way down. We called them "wakies" like in, "Man, I caught a bad wakie going past the Union Bank building." It was then, as we sat that night looking over the edge, Lane Kent said something I'd never heard anyone else say before. It was, for me, the first true "nugget" I can remember. While we each were commenting on how we preferred five mph, or eight, or even ten mph of wind, Lane said, "I like no wind." It was a proverbial light bulb moment. I'm not saying we invented that thought, but in those days communication between jumpers wasn't what it is today, and groups of us around the country were learning the hard lessons of BASE all at about the same time. And the seeds of the fact we were jumping with the wrong gear was starting to take hold. The only problem was we were still some years away from a true "BASE" canopy being available. At the time the first person who started jumping a canopy we thought was "big" was Moe Viletto. Moe, who's not physically large, was jumping Ravens in the 245 sq ft range but again the paradox came into play. We thought wake turbulence, which was inevitable because we jumped in winds, was better managed with a smaller canopy. Our skydiving knowledge was still trumping our BASE knowledge as we knew DZ turbulence was handled better by flying faster through it. But then we started to see Moe landing lightly in more types of conditions while we continued to cream in. (How we never thought to wear some type of body armor amazes me to this day.) So, slowly at first, we all started buying larger canopies. I got rid of my Para-Flite Cruiselite in favor of a much larger Precision Interceptor. And all of a sudden I was standing up most landings, or at least running them out when going downwind. Life was good. Now I don't want to minimize the fact the lesson of bigger was better took a good while to catch on. In fact the earliest BASE canopy manufactures got stuck with a lot of small canopies as even they were slightly behind the times. It took a few years, until smaller females started BASE jumping that those "left overs" finally went out the door. Another canopy lesson we learned was that the ability to make steep braked accuracy approaches suddenly meant if you missed it wasn't a matter, like at the DZ, of just missing the pea gravel. It meant hitting something hard besides the ground. The first time you peak over the edge of a building in the middle of the night you'll see what I mean. When you look down at that one safe place where you must land, you are also going to realize there is a lot hard evil pointy stuff down there that can hurt, and even kill you. Of course, not all BASE jumps are as hard as those mentioned, but being able to handle those means the rest are a bit easier. Now Ben, I wrote all that just so I could pen the following without you thinking I'm nuts. I'm 155 pounds soaking wet and I BASE jump with a 265 sq ft canopy. That may sound ridiculously big to you, but I'm hoping something in the above allows you to follow my reasoning. I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention the following. You wrote something about your BASE canopy purchase being "good for the future." I just want to make sure you don't mean that in the sense that you would be downsizing. While there might be some big breakthrough in BASE canopies that allows that in the future, we are still in our "upsizing" phase. Also, before someone jumps on me, the above is "general advice." There are some very experienced BASE jumpers in the world who jump with smaller canopies. Marta, at Apex BASE is one, but she has enough expertise and experience to do whatever she wants. Also there are some big wall BASE jumps with huge open LZs where something smaller can be okay. But my advice is don't counter that with a one canopy for this jump and another canopy for that jump. For now, just jump one canopy and get very good at it, and it will pay dividends in the end. So go ahead and purchase a big BASE canopy. Find an old large Javelin or Vector skydiving container it will fit in and put a bunch of jumps on it at the DZ. Jump early in the morning, or at sunset, when there is little or no wind. When you've dialed in your BASE pack job and can put the canopy constantly close to the peas head out to the Perrine Bridge for a first BASE jump course. Then you can buy a BASE container and be good to go after that . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MortalWombat 0 #8 March 31, 2007 now that, was a decent post.The only thing stopping you is all the people that want to stop you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #9 March 31, 2007 Nick- Sometimes you post on here about the "new generation", and people who don't actually know you could get the wrong impression. But in reality, you're great to the new guys. Such is the paradox of the virtual world...Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benno 0 #10 March 31, 2007 Nick, thanks for the advice/suggestions. Very thorough. I learned a lot from your post. I will probably start looking for something in the 260+ range. Again, thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
derkaderka 0 #11 March 31, 2007 to help prepare for base i would suggest trying to land in tight areas or swoop threw gaps in the trees it is aggod way to let your self know if u will have the canopy skills needed for base find an opening 10 feet widder than your canopy and swoop threw it a bunch of times and for god sacks dont crashIM THE COOLEST MOTHER FUCKER IN THE WORLD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #12 March 31, 2007 Very nice, Nick. When are you going to write a book? I really don't know what I'm talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MortalWombat 0 #13 April 1, 2007 Quote and for god sacks dont crash The only thing stopping you is all the people that want to stop you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #14 April 1, 2007 Quoteto help prepare for base i would suggest trying to land in tight areas or swoop threw gaps in the trees it is aggod way to let your self know if u will have the canopy skills needed for base Unfortunately, unless you are flying a 190 tarp you will never even make it to the trees to swoop through them.... Instead you'll be dodging fences and metal poles...Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
