Bigwallmaster 0 #1 April 4, 2006 Quick question on ethics. . . . . A friend of mine who recently got into skydiving met some BASE jumpers at the local dropzone. They decided to take my friend along with them to "watch" their jumps from an S that is known for being hot. Keep in mind, my friend was there to watch not GC. My friend doesn't BASE and has no intention of getting into BASE. Although I don't have a problem with them taking a non-BASEer to simply watch, I wonder what the more experienced jumpers have to say on this. Is this considered acceptable? Cheers, J.P. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #2 April 4, 2006 With just this basic info, I don't personally consider it a breach of ethics...or even call their ethics to question. I'd have to know more before I'd even go that route. My personal opinion on the matter, however, is if someone doesn't really need to be there, why take them? If they're not GC, they're probably just a liability to the load. And if the object is hot...it's even more of a "why bother?" -C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JaapSuter 0 #3 April 4, 2006 If it's an illegal jump; less is more. Preferably only one person for groundcrew, and no more than two jumpers. The local jumpers here all agree and we don't give each other shit for not getting invited on a load. The organizer sets the rules. If you don't like it, organize your own loads. For legal jumps, the more the merrier. That is, I have no problems sharing the excitement of a jump. I won't go out and actively invite tons of people, but I've run into hikers at the exit point and happily agreed they could watch. As long as the jump isn't overly sketchy, I don't see harm in showing that we're just ordinary people with an extra-ordinary passion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #4 April 4, 2006 QuoteFor legal jumps, the more the merrier. That is, I have no problems sharing the excitement of a jump. I won't go out and actively invite tons of people, but I've run into hikers at the exit point and happily agreed they could watch. As long as the jump isn't overly sketchy, I don't see harm in showing that we're just ordinary people with an extra-ordinary passion. The only thing I'd add to this is that I would tell them, up front, that if shit goes bad, it could likely go extremely bad and will do so VERY quickly. -C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigwallmaster 0 #5 April 4, 2006 yeah well the S in question was not legal. And yep I fully agree that it does increase the chances of jeopardizing the load for the obvious reasons. I'm pretty sure this jump was a late afternoon/very early evening jump too. Well thanks for the feedback. Personally I would never take any of my non jumper friends to watch. Period. Let me know if you would like the details on this one; I'd be happy to pm ya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badenhop 0 #6 April 4, 2006 Hello. Please. Taking tourists to see awesome sights may not even qualify in the ethics category. Before anything really has an ethical value, shouldn't it have to have some sort of impact? BASE really doesn't, unless you have witnesses. I've taken a ton of non-jumpers on BASE adventures. Even right out to the S you may be talking about. God loves it when I fly. Somebody needs to see that. The only ethical choice I have to make is how I live my life. BASE jumping is something to share. God bless you. Avery================================== I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton http://www.AveryBadenhop.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #7 April 4, 2006 QuoteQuick question on ethics. . . . . A friend of mine who recently got into skydiving met some BASE jumpers at the local dropzone. They decided to take my friend along with them to "watch" their jumps from an S that is known for being hot. Keep in mind, my friend was there to watch not GC. Is this considered acceptable? __________________________________________________ You said the S was hot. I'm guessing your friend is hot too. I would have asked her....If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #8 April 4, 2006 Honestly, I think it's fine from a BASE ethics standpoint. Mostly, "Ground Crew" is just another way of saying "spectators" anyway. I don't think it's particularly smart, especially for a high bust object, but there are lots of low bust things where folks have been bringing spectators forever.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bigwallmaster 0 #9 April 4, 2006 Interesting viewpoint Avery. . . . . .fair enough. I respect that and agree with you in some ways. cheers, J.P. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JOY 0 #10 April 4, 2006 QuoteHonestly, I think it's fine from a BASE ethics standpoint. Mostly, "Ground Crew" is just another way of saying "spectators" anyway. I don't think it's particularly smart, especially for a high bust object, but there are lots of low bust things where folks have been bringing spectators forever. "Ground Crew" is just another way of saying "spectators" anyway....Hmmm...I better think about this for a minute! Love ya anyway![email protected] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flygirl719 0 #11 April 15, 2006 Quote My friend doesn't BASE and has no intention of getting into BASE. Hmm... are you sure this friend isn't interested in BASE? Is this the friend that witnessed her first jump the day before she did her first skydive and told you that she "wants to jump off bridges" when she grows up? Is this also the person who drove the jumpers to and from the location(s) on more than one occasion? Just curious. Ground crew and spectating seem to be logical things someone who wants to get into the sport would do to be closer to it... rather than jumping into it without evaluating all the concequences. I'll owe you some beers on those "firsts" btw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bigwallmaster 0 #12 April 15, 2006 Gee I wonder? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base689 0 #13 April 15, 2006 > Is this considered acceptable? While I (almost) agree with all my BASE mates that expressed their opinion saying that that is an acceptable behaviour, I say the following. First: we must consider "who" is this skydiver that is taken to watch a BASE mission: is he/she trusty so that he/she is NOT going to talk about it/about the object with other skydivers? Second: from a general point of view, while it perhaps can be "within" the BASE ethics, it is NOT a great idea to take "generic" skydivers to witness BASE missions because they can talk about it and moreover thay can talk about the object, and the more he/she talks, the more skydivers come to know abnout the object and the more skydivers know about the object the more it exists of a "do-it-yourself" BASE jump. So (I am speaking for our group (=Italian BASE)) we definitely avoid as much as possible to take any "skydiver" to witness a BASE mission. Exceptions being: 1) skydiver who are taken to witness BASE mission because they are being trained to BASE jump 2) a person who FIRST is a true and trustful friend of one of us and THEN is a skydiver Other that the above, I don't see any "advantage" in taking skydivers to witness BASE missions (leave alone the fact that the more "people" come to know our objetcs, the higher is the chance that "Gifts of God" come to know our objects and then here we go with broad daylight actions and stadiums crews and burnt objects, but this is another story). Just my 0.02€Stay safe out there Blue Skies and Soft Walls BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 0
TomAiello 25 #8 April 4, 2006 Honestly, I think it's fine from a BASE ethics standpoint. Mostly, "Ground Crew" is just another way of saying "spectators" anyway. I don't think it's particularly smart, especially for a high bust object, but there are lots of low bust things where folks have been bringing spectators forever.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigwallmaster 0 #9 April 4, 2006 Interesting viewpoint Avery. . . . . .fair enough. I respect that and agree with you in some ways. cheers, J.P. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JOY 0 #10 April 4, 2006 QuoteHonestly, I think it's fine from a BASE ethics standpoint. Mostly, "Ground Crew" is just another way of saying "spectators" anyway. I don't think it's particularly smart, especially for a high bust object, but there are lots of low bust things where folks have been bringing spectators forever. "Ground Crew" is just another way of saying "spectators" anyway....Hmmm...I better think about this for a minute! Love ya anyway![email protected] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flygirl719 0 #11 April 15, 2006 Quote My friend doesn't BASE and has no intention of getting into BASE. Hmm... are you sure this friend isn't interested in BASE? Is this the friend that witnessed her first jump the day before she did her first skydive and told you that she "wants to jump off bridges" when she grows up? Is this also the person who drove the jumpers to and from the location(s) on more than one occasion? Just curious. Ground crew and spectating seem to be logical things someone who wants to get into the sport would do to be closer to it... rather than jumping into it without evaluating all the concequences. I'll owe you some beers on those "firsts" btw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base689 0 #13 April 15, 2006 > Is this considered acceptable? While I (almost) agree with all my BASE mates that expressed their opinion saying that that is an acceptable behaviour, I say the following. First: we must consider "who" is this skydiver that is taken to watch a BASE mission: is he/she trusty so that he/she is NOT going to talk about it/about the object with other skydivers? Second: from a general point of view, while it perhaps can be "within" the BASE ethics, it is NOT a great idea to take "generic" skydivers to witness BASE missions because they can talk about it and moreover thay can talk about the object, and the more he/she talks, the more skydivers come to know abnout the object and the more skydivers know about the object the more it exists of a "do-it-yourself" BASE jump. So (I am speaking for our group (=Italian BASE)) we definitely avoid as much as possible to take any "skydiver" to witness a BASE mission. Exceptions being: 1) skydiver who are taken to witness BASE mission because they are being trained to BASE jump 2) a person who FIRST is a true and trustful friend of one of us and THEN is a skydiver Other that the above, I don't see any "advantage" in taking skydivers to witness BASE missions (leave alone the fact that the more "people" come to know our objetcs, the higher is the chance that "Gifts of God" come to know our objects and then here we go with broad daylight actions and stadiums crews and burnt objects, but this is another story). Just my 0.02€Stay safe out there Blue Skies and Soft Walls BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
