Classic or Startrac

[EDYDO 0]

I can't seem to get a good answer to this question. Why do most accuracy jumpers use the Classic while most demo jumpers use the Startrac?

(Humor me and assume the above to be true.)

Ed

[mjosparky 3]

This is a guess from a demo jumps point of view. The accuracy jumper land on a big pad called a Tufet, Sp?, while the demo jumper needs/wants to land standing up in a parking lot.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[John4455 0]

My Startrac has a bag built into the canopy that I can put a 5x8 ft flag into and pull out after opening.
The flag will then trail between the canopy and the risers.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[EDYDO 0]

Are you saying that the Startrac is less accurate and has a softer landing than the Classic?

As far as the flag bag is concerned, I consider that to be a convenience that could be added to other canopies, if desired and not the reason for the canopy selection.

Ed

Quote

This is a guess from a demo jumps point of view. The accuracy jumper land on a big pad called a Tufet, Sp?, while the demo jumper needs/wants to land standing up in a parking lot.
Sparky

[PhreeZone 15]

The Classic seems to be able to be sunk in at a much steeper angle then what the Startrc comes in at. We have accuracy jumpers on both at my DZ and the classic comes in a much steeper angle most the time. The Classic jumper usually doesn't attempt to stand up, but the Startrac/Sharpchuter jumper can stand them up usually.

PM Bnacrazywoman, she won a medal in the '02 Nationals and has lots of experience on both canopys.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[NightJumper 0]

I can tell you that the classic is being used or going to be by more government agencies because of the soft accurate landings. They include the BLM Smoke Jumpers, USAFA and six foreign military units. I was able to land the one I jumped last week standing up with only 25% flare and about 4mph winds.

[usskydiver 0]

Ed,
Tim Tennant weighing in here. The difference is "demo accuracy" vs. "target accuracy." With a demo you want a nice stand up landing in front of the crowd. With a target it is generally a seated precision landing for the electronic scoring pad. Also the Demo acc. canopies (Startrack, PD, etc.) are slightly smaller than a Foil or Classic and give you better penetration in higher winds at demos than the IPC limits for accuracy. Next time your up at Raeford, talk to Randy Kern, Tim or Tony Thacker as they've all been world level competition acc jumpers. Cheryl Whitford will be a wealth of info as well.

Tim Tennant

[GARYC24 3]

I myself, plan on getting into accuracy.
I am 1/2 thru buying a 2nd rig for the large accuracy canopy needed..Classic 288 (?) range
I have been told via here from that anyone should been able to stand-up a landing from these canopies!
I have never EVEN seen a Classic, Classic 2000, or a Eiff Classic (besides pictures).
There are other options for Comp. Acc. hard toggles, even a harness made especially for acc. plus shoes! etc.
I'll have the container in 2 months..
then the hard part....finding a canopy..I may buy a Challenger from that guy they...CallRalph..
or a closer friend..a Parafoil 252 (which will be small for me, they say..but I think it will be just fine for 1st time beginner to play with,etc.)
Gary Calhoun

[EDYDO 0]

I have a 305 Challenger for a second rig. It does just fine, but seems like I am never satisfied. Have thought about getting a Startrac, but it's just a want, not a need since the Challenger does what I want it to do.

Hey Gary, buy my rig and I'll get a new toy.
(anybody know why my post window got so big when I changed providers?)

Ed

I'll have the container in 2 months..
then the hard part....finding a canopy..I may buy a Challenger
Gary Calhoun

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

I have never EVEN seen a Classic, Classic 2000, or a Eiff Classic (besides pictures).

Attached is a shot of me stomping a disc in the peas with my previous Classic canopy. I'm now on my 2nd Classic chute.

I've done Style and Accuracy at the Nationals for five or six years. The accuracy competitors are split about 50-50 between the Classic and the Parafoil.

[GARYC24 3]

Yeah ! That's what I want!
Too bad PD doesn't make one like that so I can use my 35% discount voucher !
Anyways..what's the dimensions on the cells, they look BIG.
You do hopNpops, or terminal? I hear you can take Classic (or Eiff Classic terminal).
And packing it? What's the scoop!
PM me
Nice pic..has to be the best picture I seen od a Classic!

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Yeah ! That's what I want! Anyways..what's the dimensions on the cells, they look BIG. You do hopNpops, or terminal? I hear you can take Classic (or Eiff Classic terminal). And packing it? What's the scoop!

Yes, the cells are huge, compared to most canopies made today.

And it's all F-111 fabric, designed to be air permeable, to help them sink steeply when you want 'em to. That means they also pack very easily, without the problems of trapped air associated with zero-porosity fabrics.

There are also two holes in the bottom skin, so that when sinking straight down, air enters through those holes to help keep the canopy inflated, since there isn't that much being shoved in the nose from forward speed.

The slots between the stabilizers and the bottom skin also vent air uniformly out the sides, for steadiness.

The serious accuracy competitors load their canopies at about .8 or .85 I believe. This means they aren't much good for high-wind days.

The brakes are usually set to pull the tail down a bit, even with the toggles all the way up. The idea there is that you want the stall point at about hip level when pulling the toggles, rather than at full arm length, for best accuracy control, to sink straight down on the target when just a few feet up.

John Eiff, designer of the Classic, recommends just flat-folding the nose, rather than rolling it, like a lot of packers. I just fold the top edge over into a triangle, and then make two flat folds of the nose down to the A lines. Other than that, packing is just like any other canopy. However, they're so darned big, you may not be able to PRO pack them, as they'll drape onto the ground. I do the old-fashioned flat pack.

I'm not going to knock Para-Foils here, so don't take the following as a negative criticism. But in my experience, I had trouble controlling hard openings at terminal velocity on Foils, and my Classic handles that very well. I can jump it for both style and accuracy. Other jumpers are specialized enough that they have two rigs; one for style, and one for accuracy.

Some of the serious accuracy guys like to have old-fashioned wood toggles, or modern nylon replicas, instead of soft loop toggles. But you can have trouble getting riser covers closed over top of those.

There are other gizmos, like a rear riser extension, which allows the brake lines to angle toward the tail at a less severe angle, compared with sliding through a conventional ring on the rear riser.

Sliders are different too. I use a "D-Ring" slider, which was big D-shaped rings, instead of grommets. That allows the slider to be pulled down over the toggles easily, and tucked behind your head. Another type is the split-slider, which comes in two halves, held together with a cord; on opening you reach up and pull the cord, and the two halves come apart. This allows the lines to open up more naturally into a wider angle, instead of being held closer together, restricted by the width of the slider.

Competition accuracy jumps are done from 2,500', so that's the best way to practice it. But you can also do it every time you land, such as after RW jumps. You just have to accept the fact that sometimes there may be traffic conflicts with other people on the load, which keeps you from making a good accuracy approach.

I have both a Classic and a Triathalon, which I swap in and out of the same rig, depending upon whether I'm doing Style & Accuracy, or RW, respectively. Each is mounted on it's own risers, with it's own bridle and pilot chute. So swapping is easy.