Tailgate use on slider up. . . .always use it?

[Bigwallmaster 0]

I know it is best to use the tailgate on slider down jumps.

What about slider up pack jobs? Should the tailgate be used everytime? Are there situations where it is best to avoid using the tailgate?

J.P.

[TomAiello 25]

I generally use masking tape slider up. Here's why:

If you have customized your DBS (which you should have, right?), then you'll need to move your tailgate.

The tailgate ought to be placed such that with the brakes set, the line attachment tabs are _just_ (less than an inch is ideal) above the tailgate. If you place the tailgate too low, you risk tailgate hangup in some low airspeed (generally PCA) situations.

Since I don't want to experience a tailgate hangup slider up, I'd suggest either (a) moving the tailgate up (and creating a second tailgate attachment point) for shallow brakes (slider up), or (b) simply using masking tape.

I admit, I've used the standard tailgate set point, and haven't had any problems. But I'd hate to be the one to teach that lesson to everyone else.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Bigwallmaster 0]

I generally use masking tape slider up.

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How many wraps?

[JaapSuter 0]

Hi Tom,

just double checking here. First you say:

Quote

If you place the tailgate too low, you risk tailgate hangup in some low airspeed (generally PCA) situations.

Followed by:

Quote

Since I don't want to experience a tailgate hangup slider up

But wouldn't you agree that a slider-up jump is rarely in low airspeed?

Just curious.

Is masking-tape the tape that breaks really easily? I haven't seen this technique yet I believe. Do you put the sticky side inside or outside?

Thanks,

Jaap

[pringles 0]

It is my understanding that the tail gate can/could work its way into one of the holes of the mesh slider. This can/could cause the slider to hang up. I have done some jumps with the tape. It seems to work well. I have inspected the lines after each jump also. I have yet to find any evidence that tape was used after a jump. So apparently there is plenty of force to break the tape.

Here is a search of masking tape. You may have to sift through some of it but there is quite a bit of info.

http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=forum_22&search_type=AND&search_string=masking+tape

Matt Davies

[pBASEtobe 0]

Quote

I'd suggest either (a) moving the tailgate up (and creating a second tailgate attachment point) for shallow brakes (slider up), or (b) simply using masking tape.

Is there a reason you haven't gone and made a second tailgate attachment point? It's pretty easy to do isn't it? This seems to be the best way of doing it as far as it being more consistent from one pack job to another. (I'm guessing seeing as how I've never used tape.)

[pBASEtobe 0]

Quote

It is my understanding that the tail gate can/could work its way into one of the holes of the mesh slider. This can/could cause the slider to hang up.

Just to mention...
This is a possibility with large hole mesh but not with small hole mesh (so I've been told).

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Hi Tom,

just double checking here. First you say:

Quote

If you place the tailgate too low, you risk tailgate hangup in some low airspeed (generally PCA) situations.

Followed by:

Quote

Since I don't want to experience a tailgate hangup slider up

But wouldn't you agree that a slider-up jump is rarely in low airspeed?

Yes, but the slider slows things down, thereby decreasing the force applied on the tailgate closure. So, since we know that in "low tailgate breaking force" applications (i.e. PCA) a low tailgate placement can result in a hangup, and we know that this is because there is less force on the tailgate, it makes some sense to leap to "moving the tailgate down when force on it is reduced can lead to hangup." There is no solid evidence for this, and, to my knowledge, no recorded cases.

However, tailgates haven't been used slider up nearly as much as slider down, so it might benefit us to take some of the lessons learned slider down, and try to see how parts of them might apply slider up.

I guess what I'm saying is: "be aware of the danger, and make your own decisions." It would suck if I knew this _might_ be an issue, and I said nothing, and then someone, somewhere, snivelled in under a slider up tailgate hangup. I'd far rather that folks think I was a little alarmist (especially since the fix is fairly easy).

Quote

Is masking-tape the tape that breaks really easily? I haven't seen this technique yet I believe. Do you put the sticky side inside or outside?

Masking tape is the stuff you use when painting, to cover the stuff you don't want the paint on. It's the paperish stuff that tears easily. I've seen it used in 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch widths for this, with wraps ranging from 1 to 5. I personally prefer to put the sticky side out, so that the tape (and lines it holds) stay in the same place relative to the fabric of the pack job. This is not standard practice (most people put the sticky side in).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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I generally use masking tape slider up.

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How many wraps?

I usually use 2. I actually sometimes vary it depending on delay. I've seen as many as 5 used with no noticeable variation in outcome.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Quote

It is my understanding that the tail gate can/could work its way into one of the holes of the mesh slider. This can/could cause the slider to hang up.

Just to mention...
This is a possibility with large hole mesh but not with small hole mesh (so I've been told).

This also ought to be impossible with the tailgate situated very low (say, down past the mesh), but then you get back into the things I was talking about above.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[pBASEtobe 0]

Quote

...with the tailgate situated very low (say, down past the mesh)...

Uh...doesn't that mean the tailgate is below the slider? Or do you mena down below the mesh but above the grommets? still even if it was below the mesh it could still catch the mesh as the slider came down.
I think I'm just not visualizing this properly. I'm at work, I'm tired and I want to go home!

[TomAiello 25]

You could put it at the level of the grommets. When the slider was folded up into the pack job, no mesh would be near the tailgate. Theoretically, this would reduce the risk of entanglement, although you are correct that in the opening there would always be some way for the tailgate to get accidentally tangled.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[diablopilot 2]

Was it you that mentioned something about a "slider-gate" (tailgate ON the slider)?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[TomAiello 25]

Maybe. The configuration I've played with is a tailgate sewn into the trailing edge of the slider. Vertigo put(s?--not sure how current this is) a stow band on the trailing edge. The idea is that you take a bight of the control lines (I've seen tandems packed this way) to inhibit line over. I don't really like doing that because (a) I can't be sure to make perfectly symmetric bights, and (b) I don't like re-trimming the canopy ad-hoc each time I pack. If you put a tailgate there instead, and close it with a rubber band, you don't distort the line trim nearly as much. Still, there are the issues discussed in this thread (tailgate/mesh entanglement, potential hangup due to low pressure, etc).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[GaryP 0]

A WARNING ON THE USE OF MASKING TAPE !!

The behavour of masking tape is very different when the tape is even slightly damp or wet.

When dry - the tape tears easily but when wet rather than tearing most brands tend to "scrunch" up forming a strong mass that is really hard to break.

And I mean REALLY strong - stronger than pvc tape.

More correctly, it's strength attributes don't change but it's behavour when wet does (i.e. it doesn't remain flat enabling a tear - it does form a strong mass of tape).

Try for yourself. Don't use it where it may have a chance of getting even damp before it's intended breakage.

g.

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

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