First BASE Gear

[TomAiello 25]

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AIRLOCKS with bottom skin vents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've long wanted one of those. As an added bonus, the canopy ought to stay pressurized in full stall, which would make double riser stalls (to avoid imminent object strike) much nicer, and less costly of altitude.

I know that Vertigo was once talking about prototyping an airlocked BASE canopy (I believe it was called the Shaman). I'm not sure where that project ended up, other than the obvious (it never made it to public release). But perhaps now that they've got the valved Rock Dragon, Apex might consider revisiting the topic (hint, hint--I know you read these forums Jimmy).

As long as I'm dreaming, why not add airlocks on the tail as well, so that the canopy could take in air from that end during a double riser maneuver, and essentially "fly" (yes, I know the airfoil doesn't work that way) backward?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[peterk 0]

Seriously- I'll put the offer there, again. I will work overtime at my crappy job to afford another canopy, if someone will build me an airlocked canopy with bottom skin vents. And I'll go to TF and knock 6 jumps a day until I have about 100 videos with belly mount DV shooting up to get video of the openings. I'll jump it from a plane with friends taping from the side, in all flight profiles. I've tried and tried to get interest going on this, I can't imagine that can be all bad... If it is a horrible idea, tell me why. If it just hasn't been tested as far as it could, build it...

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Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[TomAiello 25]

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I will work overtime at my crappy job to afford another canopy, if someone will build me an airlocked canopy with bottom skin vents. And I'll go to TF and knock 6 jumps a day until I have about 100 videos with belly mount DV shooting up to get video of the openings. I'll jump it from a plane with friends taping from the side, in all flight profiles.

Me too!

Hmmm. Maybe I'll start making some phone calls. But I bet I could just buy a stock canopy and have someone sew in valves in various places.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[peterk 0]

Yea, once upon a time, I had a shiny new vented/valved canopy. Everything about it kicks ass. This last year of heavy jumping has taken a toll on it, it isn't new anymore. And I have two new ones that were born to replace it.

Anyone know enough about airlock technology, and how to use a sewing machine, to give it a shot? Even if this idea doesn't work, I can take the airlocks out. I am willing to spend my own money to try this, if someone has the skills and knowledge to go in the right direction...?

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Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[ultraviolet 0]

I bet you could send off a new canopy to Brian Germain and have it retro'd with airlocks.

[leroydb 0]

wonder what that would cost?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[basehoundsam 0]

I have heard that Brian built one as a prototype, that was jumped by Clint here in Colorado many years ago. I believe it exploded on opening during a terminal jump from an airplane during testing.

Jay Epstein Ramirez
www.adrenalineexploits.com

[maretus 0]

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Still, I think that the Troll in particular has poor enough openings unvented that it's worth buying the MDV option up front.

This is starting to slip and slide from the original topic so feel free Tom to split this to another thread if you want to. I think we've discussed the openings of the unvented Troll before in some other thread but could you please elaborate your view a bit further ? How are they poor ? Do they open off heading or is pressurization poor or what is wrong with the openings from your point of view ? I jump a unvented Troll and have 40 jumps on it so far and I'm very happy with the openings. I've taken my unvented troll from full terminals to low short delays and I'm very happy with it. Of course since I'm a newbie to this sport and don't have much experience with other canopies, it just could be that I don't know of anything better.

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[TomAiello 25]

My experience with my unvented Troll was that the openings were significantly slower and less consistent than with (for example) a Mojo.

(As an aside, this was one of the reasons I found the "Troll is just a copy of the Mojo" to be bunk--much as the later "Ace is just a copy of a Troll" urban myth is also totally wrong. The three canopies have easily noticeable differences in openings and flight, and I tend to think that anyone who believes they are knockoffs of each other--in whatever order--simply hasn't jumped all three canopies.)

When jumping my Troll initially (before the MDV was added) I made about 50 jumps on it and noticed that pressurization was very inconsistent. The canopy would experience (asymmetric) pressure waves during secondary inflation (after bottoms skin expansion) that would roll in different directions on different openings. I couldn't explain why this was happening, aside from the observations that the slider down openings seemed to take noticeably longer than the other canopies I had experienced. I speculated that the slow secondary (cell) inflation allowed more time for the random factors to come into play.

I think it's very important to note that I'm discussing my particular unvented Troll. This was a relatively early Troll in the US, although I do know that I know another jumper who demoed one prior to this and felt the low airspeed openings were so poor that he nicknamed it "the jellyfish." I believe this was prior to a crossport enlargement which improved pressurization.

Another thing to consider: I've often found folks with experience on only one canopy (or perhaps a handful of jumps on other canopies) touting their canopy as "opening best", or "having hard openings", or some other qualitative assessment of performance, with no basis for comparison. I've especially noticed this with a number of European jumpers reporting "hard" openings on Trolls. After some side by side comparisons, it turned out that the openings they thought were "hard" or "clean" were in fact much softer than openings on other canopies. At any rate, I always increase greatly the size of the salt grain I take when hearing reports on canopy performance form jumpers who have less than 100 jumps on at least two other canopies as a basis for comparison (this is one of the reasons I treasured DW's canopy opinions so much--he had more than 100 jumps on at least 5 different BASE canopies).

Sorry to lecture. I hope I'm not coming across as condescending or offensive. I've just run out of time to re-edit this, so I may come back later and try to soften the tone.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

I've edited a significant portion of this thread to remove discussion of specific jumping in a specific location. I did this after discussion with locals in that area, and without effecting the original thrust of the thread.

I started that discussion in an aside, so I'm officially slapping myself on the wrist now.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[maretus 0]

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Another thing to consider: I've often found folks with experience on only one canopy (or perhaps a handful of jumps on other canopies) touting their canopy as "opening best", or "having hard openings", or some other qualitative assessment of performance, with no basis for comparison. I've especially noticed this with a number of European jumpers reporting "hard" openings on Trolls. After some side by side comparisons, it turned out that the openings they thought were "hard" or "clean" were in fact much softer than openings on other canopies. At any rate, I always increase greatly the size of the salt grain I take when hearing reports on canopy performance form jumpers who have less than 100 jumps on at least two other canopies as a basis for comparison (this is one of the reasons I treasured DW's canopy opinions so much--he had more than 100 jumps on at least 5 different BASE canopies).

Sorry to lecture. I hope I'm not coming across as condescending or offensive. I've just run out of time to re-edit this, so I may come back later and try to soften the tone.

Don't be sorry, I asked your opinion and got it. As I said in my post, I'm far from being expert in basecanopies and definately far from being able to give a good review since I do have very limited excperience with other canopies (than my uvented troll). I asked for your opinion conserning the troll because I wanted know what kind of behavior I should look and see wheter it exists in my troll and propably what things i should consider and pay special attention when looking other peoples jumping.

http://www.ufufreefly.com