DexterBase 0 #26 November 18, 2004 Hey dude, I have some video of his earlier packjobs. Pretty scary stuff! I'm glad to hear they're more anal now. You guys need to get out here so we can play. The Kmonster will be getting her new PerigeePro in a day or two so you should come out. She'll also be hitting 100 in the next night or two. I'm excited! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obi 0 #27 November 18, 2004 Any info on how people lost their toggles? Brake fire on opening or lost out of their hands after releasing? In first case, properly installed? In second, what kind of toggles? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liv 0 #28 December 1, 2004 JasonF took some photos before he died intending to prepare a post regarding packing technique and line overs. I’m going to do my best to convey the essence of his intended message. During one of the early Petronas events in Malaysia, several people had partial line overs that cleared on opening (thanks go to Annie for filming these and pointing them out to the people involved). Jason was one of these people who had a self-clearing line over. He spoke to everyone else who had also had a self-clearing line over in an attempt to locate a cause. Over the years, Jason critically analysed the way he packed in an effort to reduce the chance of slider-up line overs. At the most recent event, there were again several people who had self-clearing line overs. Jason spoke to them and examined their packing techniques. He concluded that they were all missing a crucial step in their pack-job. Hence, Jason came up with the following suggestion. The attached photo shows the left-hand side and right-hand side of a pack job flaked slightly differently. On the left-hand side, the first stabiliser fold has been consciously pulled out and the brake lines pulled in towards the middle of the pack-job. The brake line on the left-hand side is now significantly impeded from leaving the middle of the pack-job during deployment. However, on the right-hand side, the stabiliser was not pulled out when the three outer cells were folded in. The result is that the stabiliser on the right-hand side is now hidden, and the brake line’s movement is less restricted. Jason believed that ensuring the stabiliser was pulled out, and that the brake lines were pulled in to the middle of the pack-job was important to avoid line overs. Logically, having the stabiliser pulled further out - and the brake lines further in - makes it much less likely that the brake lines will end up on the wrong side of the stabiliser when it inflates. Some of the other people who had self-clearing line overs in Malaysia had some of the most anally retentive packing techniques I’ve ever seen (sorry Ray), so sloppy packing can easily be ruled out as a possible cause. Since changing his packing technique, Jason has never observed another self-clearing line over on footage of his jumps. Something to think about… Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #29 December 2, 2004 I am not following you. Are you saying that wrapping the stabilizer inside the other folds, while leaving the tail outside was the culprit? Or are you saying that letting control lines wander outside was the culprit? Or both? If the latter, wouldn't that make the tailgated line over that PK had impossible? If the former, why would putting the stabilizer inside or outside the other folds matter? Since the "main" folds must come out before tailgate blows open and releases the control lines, I can't see how the position of the stablizer can be the cause (it's essentially the same by the time the lines are free to move outside). As I said, I don't follow. Can you elaborate?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RayLosli 11 #30 December 2, 2004 had some of the most anally retentive packing techniques I’ve ever seen (sorry Ray), so sloppy packing can easily be ruled out as a possible cause. ............................. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaha Liv : No offence taken, If I Do a nice pack-job, I can't blame My canopy on a Bad opening. It must have been my fault Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RayLosli 11 #31 December 2, 2004 Liv ... There is one thing though. My stabilizers are pulled out, and my Brake lines are on top and in center with the rest of lines. / nice tight line channel. My pack-jobs like you say are," text book perfect " When I am on a Technical object like, inner city buildings the pack's are perfect and everyone exactly alike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huckfinn 0 #32 December 2, 2004 Tom, I believe the Jason pics and message Liv posted all relate to slider up line overs. Seems like solid logic there, I like the way Jason reasoned things out. Although I strongly believe in and use tape on slider up control lines to avoid just what Jason referred to; control lines moving outside inflating stabilizers slider up. Slider down with a tailgate, this is a mute point. I think the tailgate takes care of things, regardless of stabilizer position, provided of course the tailgate is used correctly. The 15% random black fuck factor seems to apply to every jump. Glad this post is about information and not condolences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toni 0 #33 December 2, 2004 It is normal here to pack the way you describe left side. I did not know that people do pack like the right side. don't understand people packing this way, since for me it is screaming for line-over. Additionally, we do a strong direct slider control (with black rubber bands ;-)) With this strong direct control I don't see any use of tape or a tailgate... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #34 December 2, 2004 Some notes on line overs: Tailgates DECREASE the risk of a line over - they don't reduce it to zero. There has been tailgate lineovers. Landing a line over is more likely to result in greater injury than a rear riser landing. Some tips: - clear your stabilisers - this has been an integral & extrememly important part of packing in both skydiving and BASE jumping for DECADES. If the stabiliser inflates prior to the brake lines moving, there is a much lower chance of a line over occuring. Most line overs start where a stabiliser inflates on the ïnside" of a brake line such that the brake line is forced towards the leading edge of a canopy. - ensure symmetry in your pack job. This means lines in the centre & tight + material outside. Ensure the lines are tight all the way up to the d attachments. Quarter your slider and use the same principle for the material - aim is to promote symmetrical airflow to the canopy during deplyment. - ensure that the tailgate is both installed and used correctly. - etc Dropped toggles occur for a number of reasons: - incorrect stowage - incompatable equipment (i.e. small toggle / large loop) - poorly maintained equipment - deployment in unsymmetrical position leading to toggle hitting other components of the equipment during deployment - people let go of their toggles due to lack of focus / concentration - etc any other ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #35 December 2, 2004 Ah. I see. I was confused by the thread drift (since we were originally discussing slider down tailgated lineovers). Thanks!-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #36 December 2, 2004 I've sewn a tailgate on the center upper trailing edge of the slider. When I pack slider up I trap the "normal" TG lines in the slider-TG. I've only tried out of planes. Maybe in a month or so I'll be able to take it close to terminal in Europe and see how it performs. I'll post some pics too shortly.Memento Audere Semper 903 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base704 0 #37 December 2, 2004 Vertigo's been doing something along this line for quite some time, although I believe it's on the aft edge of the slider... Edited to add: 'tis just a "loop" of binding tape (or something similar) to which you can lark's head a rubber band in order to (correct me if I'm wrong, Tom) take a bight of your brake lines...You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #38 December 2, 2004 My bad. I meant trailing edge Memento Audere Semper 903 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #39 December 2, 2004 http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22346 http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22218 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #40 December 2, 2004 I believe the technique used by Nicknitro is superior. If you take a bite of the lines, you distort the canopy's trim during opening, in a potentially asymmetric fashion. CR used to put a stow band there as well, but they discontinued the practice for pretty much the reason I outlined.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DexterBase 0 #41 December 2, 2004 Or you could use the hookitt pack. The tail is micro reefed and then the center cell is wrapped aroung the tail to the width of the tailpocket. Stow the lines. This leaves the D-tail stabilizer totally outside the tail section. Then you 45 degree fold the A-B, B-C, and C-D stabilizer sections (as one) under the tailpocket. Fold the stacks in to the edge of the tail section, then fold again over the tail into the center. If this makes no sense at all... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RayLosli 11 #42 December 3, 2004 nicknitro : I've sewn a tailgate on the center upper trailing edge of the slider. When I pack slider up I trap the "normal" TG lines in the slider-TG. ....................................... I hear of people doing this. Do you think it is wise to "Combine" / Direct Slider control with break line restriction/control on Slider-up BASE jumps ??? * Slider control for delay,- delaying of how fast the slider come down the lines on opening * The Tail busting open and Direct control of Brake-lines to help reduce Line-Over. They are two different things. Both moving energy in different directions. The slider wants to come down / The Tail and Break-Lines want to explode, out. . . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
