Treejumps 0 #1 June 6, 2004 Here it is folks, the poll you have been waiting for. Tell the truth and add your own witty remarks or war stories. Tree Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyUtah 0 #2 June 7, 2004 I teach people that they should not jump with the wind going down the wire. I also explain why and the dangers involved.Have Fun, Don't Die! Johnny Utah My Website email:[email protected] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #3 June 7, 2004 Hmmm, the poll is 4 with no, 0 with yes. I think Johnny should stop teaching students to jump when the wind is directly down the wire, or even that cliffs and buildings are OK regardless of the wind too. I've been there during two of Johnny's courses, and love the fact that his students are leaving their FJC with 6 days and 25 jumps of video debriefed, instructor supervised jumps. How many have you watched over, and how many of his students have you jumped with? Tree, seriously, let it go. Find a girlfriend or an exit point, and step away from the computer.--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #4 June 7, 2004 i think it a valid point................. i know that people do jump with the wind down the wire (dependant on factors) I myself have done it in certain winds........ but how many people do it enough that they see no problem in it and thus extend this to taking a newbie out? If the newbie is reliant on your advice then maybe having from the start that jumping with wind down the wire is ok to do is bad practice..... in my ealier jumps i never jumped with winds down the wire no matter if the more experienced on the load were - i was not confident or knowledgeable or experienced enough to do this and only with time did i start to jump in varying other conditions. We all jump in conditions were we would not have done in our earlier jumps, but there are also people that teach that perhaps should not be teaching - so how is it being taught to people? has the mentors own limits been imposed on the newbie? or are the basics taught and then its up to the newbie to find their own comfort levels in time? yep! still bored! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #5 June 7, 2004 Quotei know that people do jump with the wind down the wire (dependant on factors) who........... i voted it as i jump it but dont teach students to do so,hell i dont even teach students I think it can be done if the other conditions are ok,and the wind aint strong. but who am i to tell... i just do what i feel right,if i dont feel that i walk away,no matter the costs.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FIREFLYR 0 #6 June 7, 2004 QuoteHere it is folks, the poll you have been waiting for. Tell the truth and add your own witty remarks or war stories. Tree I don't know shit!!! I have 18 jumps...But I'm still alive How many do you have? I am a firm believer in looking at jump #'s! over 1000...still alive? You must be doing something right. do what works for u. Johnny taught me, go for risers..Not my thing I'll hit my toggles,it's what works for me, We'll see... Hatin' seems to be Your thing..How's that working out for you? ...Keep it up then."One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest" "There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinflicka 0 #7 June 7, 2004 I always push my student off the platform if the wind is going down the wire. There are many instances when applying an unconventional strategy is required. In my case (and there are many who will attest to this) my packing techniques leave a little to be desired. The theory is fine, I'm just so cack handed that I can't execute the application of the theory too well. On the basis that my packing will give an off heading deployment regardless of wind, body position or the standard 60" cotton and polyester mix (optimized at 40 /60) pilot chute I have no hesitation whatsover in kicking the bitch off (usually on the 2 of 3,2,1 cya for added surprise). On one occasion I even threw the rig down after the asshole to give him a fighting chance. BASE is easy. The only battle you need to win is the mental one and people like me can help out with induced exiting techniques. Once you overcome the fear you're done. Any asshole can fall off an object and hit the floor. All you need to do is pull. Remember, slacken your leg loops, undo your chest strap and punch out that exit to allow differentiation between you and the object for the video. That's all there is to it. Good luck! $kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #8 June 7, 2004 QuoteI am a firm believer in looking at jump #'s! over 1000...still alive? well thats where we differ........... I am a firm believer in looking at object #'s, type of objects, range of heights, range of configuration.......... on your theory then would you say someone with 1000 off the 486 span be a better advisor than someone with 250 jumps, 70 different objects, many objects opened, nice spilt between SU / SD, terminal / sub-terminal, ???? just curious thats all........my point is that jump numbers are certainly not (too me) a be all and end all in the guage of experience............. just my bust up sitting on my arse worth...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #9 June 7, 2004 QuoteHow many do you have? if you took time to check his profile you would see!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #10 June 7, 2004 QuoteI am a firm believer in looking at object #'s, type of objects, range of heights, range of configuration.......... i calculate it in injuryes and im about as experienced as i want to be Quoteon your theory then would you say someone with 1000 off the 486 span be a better advisor than someone with 250 jumps, 70 different objects, many objects opened, nice spilt between SU / SD, terminal / sub-terminal, ???? sure if he had the 250 jumps on other objects of which min 70 different objects ill never be experiencedthat slider up thing really aint me perhaps i hit jump # 200 whith only 1 slider up..perhaps not,time will show but hey im just a dane,dont expect much of me Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #12 June 7, 2004 Sorry, this is bugging the hell out of me. What exactly does 'wind down the wire' mean? Is that an A thing or just some other technical term I'm not familiar with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #13 June 7, 2004 Quote'wind down the wire' mean? Is that an A thing or just some other technical term I'm not familiar with? if you dont know and you BASE jump, then stop going out of the house and go back to skydiving! if you dont BASE jump then sorry, it means: on a tri wire A and your looking to jump in between 2 wires then wind down the wire means that when you looking out between the 2 wires then the wind direction is traveling in the direction of one of those wires.......... wind up the wire means that as your on a tri wire then there is one wire behind you and wind is traveling up that wire and spliting the other two straight down the middle of the ones you want to exit between............... (on your back) - hope that makes some sense!! M PS: hey JU did i flame and help at the same time???? nice one! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #14 June 7, 2004 Thanks, it makes sense. I figured it might be something with the winds and guy wires on an antenna, but the first few comments in this thread made me think it could mean another thing altogether. As for BASE jumping, I'll start when it feels right. Funny thing is I had my first dream in which I actually jumped just this night. If it makes you feel any better, you can still say you flamed and helped me at the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rauk 0 #15 June 7, 2004 Careful, the dreams are what got me started. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdbase 0 #16 June 7, 2004 QuoteJohnny taught me, go for risers..Not my thing I'll hit my toggles,it's what works for me How do you know? How many 180's have you had with steel, rock or other bone shattering mass facing you?? An experienced jumper, who you sought out for instruction, teaches you to go for riser and you're (without any 180 experience) deciding that you'll go for your toggles. This sounds just a tad arrogant.-Bryan I love base like a fat kid loves cake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #17 June 7, 2004 QuoteJohnny taught me, go for risers..Not my thing I'll hit my toggles,it's what works for me Ahhh the great toggles vs. risers debate. I agree with Johnny... and I've had 180s. They're not fun... especially when you throw in a couple of line twists. My personal opinion is that you can get on the risers much quicker, and thus take corrective action quicker, by grabbing the risers rather than the toggles. Plus, if you go for toggles, you'll get forward surge when you unstow... this can be a bad thing if you're very close to the object. I also have video of someone who had a 180 with line twists, unstowed too early and wound up making the problem worse when his steering lines also got caught in the twist. You can get at risers without really thinking. Your canopy should be near the stall point (and thus will not have much forward drive) and you can either do a riser turn or stall turn if you need to. Just my $0.02. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #18 June 7, 2004 Just a brief commentary based on a few threads I've been reading here.... It bothers me a bit when I read or hear new jumpers deciding not to listen to their mentor on safety issues. I'm not saying that you should be a mindless robot, but at the same time, if a person with several hundred jumps says that it may not be a good idea to jump in certain wind conditions, or take corrective action in a certain way, chances are they probably have a pretty darn good reason for saying it. Yes we make our own choices in this sport, but if you want to stay in one piece for as long as possible, it's a good idea to make an informed decision. Sometimes that means swallowing some pride, listening to the advice of those more experienced than yourself and accepting that you may not yet have the experience to make a fully informed decision. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FIREFLYR 0 #19 June 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteI am a firm believer in looking at jump #'s! over 1000...still alive? well thats where we differ........... I am a firm believer in looking at object #'s, type of objects, range of heights, range of configuration.......... on your theory then would you say someone with 1000 off the 486 span be a better advisor than someone with 250 jumps, 70 different objects, many objects opened, nice spilt between SU / SD, terminal / sub-terminal, ???? just curious thats all........my point is that jump numbers are certainly not (too me) a be all and end all in the guage of experience............. just my bust up sitting on my arse worth...... Fair enough,I agree with that for sure."One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest" "There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FIREFLYR 0 #20 June 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow many do you have? if you took time to check his profile you would see!!! Wasn't the point really."One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest" "There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FIREFLYR 0 #21 June 7, 2004 Ok , that came out sounding like shit..My bad. I was taught that toggles turn faster,if you can grab them..as fast and every time. I don't like the idea of stalling my canopy with rear risers at all, I guess i'd take my chances with a little forward surge than stalling backwards, or sinking . ~J"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest" "There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #22 June 7, 2004 QuoteI don't like the idea of stalling my canopy with rear risers at all, I guess i'd take my chances with a little forward surge than stalling backwards, or sinking A little forward surge? I'll take the stall over an object strike any day. Learning how to control your canopy in a stall is a very important skill to have. In a controlled stall you can back your canopy away from the object and/or get turned around with a stall turn. Marta managed to avoid getting severely broken when she had a 180 and sank her canopy straight down. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #23 June 7, 2004 I certainly hope your not waisting you comedic talents sitting behind a computer for a living. Your one funny mother fucker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #24 June 7, 2004 i dont have any 180s,neither do i have some one to tell me what to do(even as i might need one time to time),my impression is that if the alti is high enough(again by me it probaly wont be),then i would back by risers,perhaps whith a slight turn and then pop toogles.If the alti is low i probaly first shit my pants,drink a beer and then deside to try the same as above but by landing by rear risers.. does this make sence?who cares? who pack to get offheaddings anyway Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #25 June 7, 2004 LMFAO - well put PK. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
