alan 1 #1 January 4, 2004 Another FYI riggers and others. If you receive a system that uses the rubber bands on the freebag locking stows, it is illegal to pack it with a PD reserve, unless of course if a rubber band can be defined as a bungee stow. Just something to be aware of when determining equipment compatibilty for assembly or making a purchasing decision. Not a slam on PD or anyone else, just a little information that could easily be overlooked.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #2 January 4, 2004 Any specific questions can easily be answered by a quick phone call to the manufacturer(s) of the gear in question. If this were me, I would call the harness/container manufacturer first, then call PD.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #3 January 4, 2004 This is not true if the container manufacture allows it. If there is a conflict between the canopy and container manufacture the container manufacture prevails. See FAA AC 105-2C 11a which can be found here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #4 January 5, 2004 I am guessing that when PD wrote that, they were not thinking about rubber bands on Racer free-bags. I'll e-mail PD for a clarification. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #5 January 5, 2004 QuoteThis is not true if the container manufacture allows it. If there is a conflict between the canopy and container manufacture the container manufacture prevails. See FAA AC 105-2C 11a which can be found here Right, and of course I'm sure there is a good reason that a container manufaturer would be advising riggers (who by the way are the last line of responsibility in determining the compadability of components) to disreguard the instructions of a major manufacturer of reserve canopies. Whatever.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #6 January 5, 2004 QuoteRight, and of course I'm sure there is a good reason that a container manufaturer would be advising riggers (who by the way are the last line of responsibility in determining the compadability of components) to disreguard the instructions of a major manufacturer of reserve canopies. You right, because the container manufacture's do the testing for the TSO as part of their reserve system and not the canopy manufacture's. Obviously the container manufacture knows more about their system than the canopy manufacture and the FAA agreed (see AC 105-2 11a). And of all of the canopy manufacture's you are only talking about a single manufacture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 January 5, 2004 QuoteAnd of all of the canopy manufacture's you are only talking about a single manufacture. And your point is? They (PD) have some of the most stringent requirements in the industry about how their products should be used. It's their perogitive, and I don't see it hurting their sales a whole lot really. Speaking of a single manufacture requiring or recomending something..seems like a Florida based Pop-top container manufacturer has their own ideas, but won't support another manufacturers requirements....... hmmmmm well everybody's entiteled to their opinion I guess.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #8 January 5, 2004 QuoteAnd your point is? That every container manufacturer determines compatibility with their systems. QuoteSpeaking or a single manufacture requiring or recomending something..seems like a Florida based Pop-top container manufacturer has their own ideas And your point is? Yes they have their ideas just as RWS has the Skyhook. Mirage has the unison harness etc. And now there is a second manufacturer using a speed bag in their reserve system. And my original point is that the post that started this thread was incorrect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #9 January 5, 2004 QuoteAnd now there is a second manufacturer using a speed bag in their reserve system.Which one?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #11 January 5, 2004 QuoteThis is not true if the container manufacture allows it. If there is a conflict between the canopy and container manufacture the container manufacture prevails. See FAA AC 105-2C 11a which can be found here Yes, I had that in front of me when I posted. Also, I got that question right on my written exam. I interpreted it to pertain to the "how to" part of assembly and not determining compatibility. I may very well be wrong, but, and I emphasize but, The FAA and its' field reps have been known to be inconsistent in their interpretations of the regaulations they enforce so maybe I'm entitled as well. Do a little search of my posts here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=807049;#807049 and you'll see I pointed this out in a discussion between Hooknswoop (Derek) and rigging65 (Ryan). Proper assembly, not compatibilty. I am anxious to see what Derek finds out from PD.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #12 January 5, 2004 QuoteAerodyne I thought a "speed bag" was defined as a bag that was designed so that every line stow was also a locking stow? As far as I know the Icon freebag has elastic flutes inside a line stow pocket, and still uses a bungee safety stow for the locking stows. At least that's what I remember from PIA. BTW, the bickering in these forums over some of the dumbest things (IMO) gets tiring REAL fast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #13 January 6, 2004 QuoteAerodyne Not true.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rigging65 0 #14 January 6, 2004 QuoteAerodyne Not unless they've changed it from what they showed at PIA....which is possible, but I haven't seen it. Anyone else? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #15 January 6, 2004 QuoteNot unless they've changed it from what they showed at PIA....which is possible, but I haven't seen it. Anyone else? I inpsected the Icon and the Smart very closely at Eloy. The Icon's reserve free bag uses a bungee safety stow and a pouch that opens with Velcro on 3 sides, like a Tail pocket. It had elastic sewn in for the line stows. My concern was spectra, etc small lines vs. Dacron reserve lines. The rep didn't have an answer, but said he would talk to the designers about it. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KellyF 16 #16 January 6, 2004 QuoteIt had elastic sewn in for the line stows. My concern was spectra, etc small lines vs. Dacron reserve lines. I think that is why they are elastic, but I could be wrong, as I don't remember the size of the flutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rigging65 0 #17 January 6, 2004 QuoteMy concern was spectra, etc small lines... What's the concern? The flutes are simply there to provide order to the lines, not really to hold them hard and fast in place because, as most of us agree, you don't need retention, just order. Like KellyF said, I would imagine that the fact they are elastic helps with that, but I'd say all they do in real life is keep order, end of story. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #18 January 6, 2004 QuoteWhat's the concern? If the flutes are set up for spectra and the reserve has Dacron lines, the flutes may slow down a slow-speed reserve deployment. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #19 January 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhat's the concern? If the flutes are set up for spectra and the reserve has Dacron lines, the flutes may slow down a slow-speed reserve deployment. Derek I see your point but the bag I looked at in Eloy(same one you looked at I assume) appeared to have flutes that could accomodate spectra or dacron lines easily. Overall, my take on it is that they are there for neatness and order."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rigging65 0 #20 January 6, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's the concern? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the flutes are set up for spectra and the reserve has Dacron lines, the flutes may slow down a slow-speed reserve deployment. Derek Maybe, but I think you might be reading too much into it. Remember you're talking about an almost inline pull, through a flexible fabric. I can certainly see your point, but I don't really see it being an issue. Of course, I've never jumped one or really sat down and played with it, so what the hell do I know!!! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #21 January 6, 2004 QuoteI don't really see it being an issue. Ya, you are probably right. It was just my first reaction when I saw it. What was funny was the rep had never heard of a reserve with Dacron lines. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #22 January 6, 2004 QuoteWhat was funny was the rep had never heard of a reserve with Dacron lines. Thats actually kinda sad. Perhaps the reps should be a bit better informed before they're representing a product. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rigging65 0 #23 January 6, 2004 QuoteWhat was funny was the rep had never heard of a reserve with Dacron lines. Yeah, that's pretty bad... He'd probably crap himself if you explained belly bands to him. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #24 January 6, 2004 QuoteThats actually kinda sad. Perhaps the reps should be a bit better informed before they're representing a product. Perhaps the rep is actually a very well informed and talented marketing rep, who has been in the sport for a little while, but never been a rigger. Maybe he has studied the product he's representing to the nth degree, and can answer any questions *about his product* Maybe Aerodyne has never manufactured a Dacron lined reserve. Maybe you shouldn't pass judgment so quickly. You ever seen one? How about a reserve made of natural fibers instead of nylon? Maybe the sky is orange.... ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #25 January 7, 2004 QuoteMaybe you shouldn't pass judgment so quickly. You ever seen one? How about a reserve made of natural fibers instead of nylon? Not only have I seen them, I have packed a couple. Now that is scary. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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diablopilot 2 #13 January 6, 2004 QuoteAerodyne Not true.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #14 January 6, 2004 QuoteAerodyne Not unless they've changed it from what they showed at PIA....which is possible, but I haven't seen it. Anyone else? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #15 January 6, 2004 QuoteNot unless they've changed it from what they showed at PIA....which is possible, but I haven't seen it. Anyone else? I inpsected the Icon and the Smart very closely at Eloy. The Icon's reserve free bag uses a bungee safety stow and a pouch that opens with Velcro on 3 sides, like a Tail pocket. It had elastic sewn in for the line stows. My concern was spectra, etc small lines vs. Dacron reserve lines. The rep didn't have an answer, but said he would talk to the designers about it. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #16 January 6, 2004 QuoteIt had elastic sewn in for the line stows. My concern was spectra, etc small lines vs. Dacron reserve lines. I think that is why they are elastic, but I could be wrong, as I don't remember the size of the flutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #17 January 6, 2004 QuoteMy concern was spectra, etc small lines... What's the concern? The flutes are simply there to provide order to the lines, not really to hold them hard and fast in place because, as most of us agree, you don't need retention, just order. Like KellyF said, I would imagine that the fact they are elastic helps with that, but I'd say all they do in real life is keep order, end of story. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #18 January 6, 2004 QuoteWhat's the concern? If the flutes are set up for spectra and the reserve has Dacron lines, the flutes may slow down a slow-speed reserve deployment. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #19 January 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhat's the concern? If the flutes are set up for spectra and the reserve has Dacron lines, the flutes may slow down a slow-speed reserve deployment. Derek I see your point but the bag I looked at in Eloy(same one you looked at I assume) appeared to have flutes that could accomodate spectra or dacron lines easily. Overall, my take on it is that they are there for neatness and order."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #20 January 6, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's the concern? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the flutes are set up for spectra and the reserve has Dacron lines, the flutes may slow down a slow-speed reserve deployment. Derek Maybe, but I think you might be reading too much into it. Remember you're talking about an almost inline pull, through a flexible fabric. I can certainly see your point, but I don't really see it being an issue. Of course, I've never jumped one or really sat down and played with it, so what the hell do I know!!! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #21 January 6, 2004 QuoteI don't really see it being an issue. Ya, you are probably right. It was just my first reaction when I saw it. What was funny was the rep had never heard of a reserve with Dacron lines. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #22 January 6, 2004 QuoteWhat was funny was the rep had never heard of a reserve with Dacron lines. Thats actually kinda sad. Perhaps the reps should be a bit better informed before they're representing a product. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #23 January 6, 2004 QuoteWhat was funny was the rep had never heard of a reserve with Dacron lines. Yeah, that's pretty bad... He'd probably crap himself if you explained belly bands to him. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #24 January 6, 2004 QuoteThats actually kinda sad. Perhaps the reps should be a bit better informed before they're representing a product. Perhaps the rep is actually a very well informed and talented marketing rep, who has been in the sport for a little while, but never been a rigger. Maybe he has studied the product he's representing to the nth degree, and can answer any questions *about his product* Maybe Aerodyne has never manufactured a Dacron lined reserve. Maybe you shouldn't pass judgment so quickly. You ever seen one? How about a reserve made of natural fibers instead of nylon? Maybe the sky is orange.... ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #25 January 7, 2004 QuoteMaybe you shouldn't pass judgment so quickly. You ever seen one? How about a reserve made of natural fibers instead of nylon? Not only have I seen them, I have packed a couple. Now that is scary. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
