DexterBase 0 #1 August 27, 2003 What are the various ways you are configuring the rig for doing low freefalls? I hear that the Gargoyle is best left with the pin cover flap closed regardless of the delay. Some rigs are best with the flap opened first. Are you priming the pins by pulling them partially through the closing loops to shorten the distance they will need to travel? Are you making closing loops out of a more slippery material to reduce the tension required to open the container? Longer closing loops? What pin tension do you feel is low enough, or too low? Any other tricks? Any problems you've noticed with anything you've done? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #2 August 27, 2003 As i only has 24 jumps on my Vertex(2 pin from BR),my knowleged is limited,but will share for who cares. When i do low freefalls(in the rang 200-250ft) i open the flap and shorthen the distance the pins will need to travel. The closing loops are thouse who came whith the rig(2. hand but only 10 jumps in it so i doubt if they were changed). I dont know the tenssion on my rig,which also can warry in the case you give the rig "massage" after the packjob(not talking big movements here). i have 9 jumps in the range of 200ft-240ft whith this setup and didt have anyproblems whith it. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #4 August 27, 2003 handheld Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilQ 0 #5 August 27, 2003 I have done 30 odd jumps in the 210-260ft FF range with my Gargoyle. I have always kept pin flap closed. I leave the top pin 3/4's of the way thru the loop and the bottom pin approx half way through the loop. Standard Morpheus issue loops used always. All jumps were hand held Play safe Neil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #6 August 27, 2003 We have a 260" antena not too far away that we jump on a regular basis. Many around here are using the NEO 2 pin harness container system and to my knowledge everyone is keeping their pin protector flaps closed. We have found that we are getting much faster deployments with our 2 pins and the pin flaps being closed than velcro rigs even without "priming the pins". This has been proven true over and over again by reveiwing video of the jumps. We have seen where higher pull forces had been possible when the closing loops where way too short. What is the proper legnth closing loop? That all depends on the make and size of the rig you use rig and the canopies you're jumping. When in doubt call the manufacture of the gear you're jumping Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #7 August 27, 2003 when do you guys start open your flaps(in wich alti)? Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #8 August 27, 2003 I'd have to ask the other guys because 260' is my hard deck. I'm jumping 300+ square foot canopys. The bigger the canopy, the more it weighs ie.. the more force required to get it to line stretch. I'm sure that the extra time is very small and mostly in my head but for me, I prefer to freefall for more than a milisecond anyway. To over come the "extra time" to line stretch on this peticualr tower, I use 48" PCs where some are using 42"s. Concider this. We have taken lots of video from a crows nest that is located about half way up the tower. Using pins, we are getting bottom skin inflations right at the crows nest while the velcro rigs typically are getting bottom skin inflation conciderably lower. It makes for very cool video. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #9 August 27, 2003 Using the same rig as you, I open the flap, prime the pins and even turn them up on edge. I like using longer closing loops for low freefall as well. Is all that necessarry? Probably not, but it gets me off the edge. With that configuration, there is no question whether or not the pins will release. With a good up ward and outward launch and tossing the Pilot chute up and forward, the pins will pop just as my body is passing the level of the exit point. It works well. Edit to add: I though it import to to say that so far the lowest I've freefallen is just under 240, and also 250 with 30 foot trees to fly over. This is currently my threshold.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #10 August 27, 2003 Karin's Boyfriend (who is probably the leading expert on low free fall) posted some very informative stuff on BLiNC on this exact topic about a year ago. I've tried to find it, but seem unable to do so. Can anyone else pull it up? As I recall, his advice was: 1) Use spectra closing loops (to reduce pull tension). I measured pull forces on various loops in a couple of rigs a while back and found that the spectra had a pull force around 25% of the regular loops (they reduced pull force from around 10-12 to around 2-3 pounds). I've seen slight hesitations (PC at bridle stretch and inflated, but no extraction) on standard closing loops, and spectra appears to solve this problem. A slight hesitation might not seem like a big deal, but my experience has been that at 150', everything is a big deal. 2) Pitch the PC straight up to bridle extension. In addition, I'd recommend opening wrap around style (vertex, perigee pro, warlock) pin flaps, especially the stiffened (vertex, perigee pro, warlock with mod) ones. Let's see if anyone can dig up his posting...-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #11 August 28, 2003 sorry to butt in but if spectra closing loops provide faster deployment why isnt it standard convention to have spectra closing loops for ANY base jump? I imagine even freefalling something hundred or two hundred feet higher you'd still want a fast deployment. Is there more of a chance of premature deployment with spectra? Thanks! --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickD 1 #12 August 28, 2003 >What pin tension do you feel is low enough, or too >low? An old rule of thumb. Pack, close the flaps, (pin(s) rig) and try to pick the rig up off the floor by its bridle. If the pins clear the loops without lifting the rig at all, it's too loose. If you pick the rig completely up off the floor without it opening, it’s too tight. Hit somewhere in the middle. Nick BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #13 August 28, 2003 Quotewhy isnt it standard convention to have spectra closing loops for ANY base jump? Because at any delay (even 1 second) the odds of hesitation decrease dramatically (as airspeed increases, and hence pull force increases). There is no reason to use slippery loops for anything over 200', because you don't need them, and there are some downsides as well--you want your pins to stay in place in freefall, after all. Essentially, it's the same reason you don't use a 48" PC for every BASE jump. Use the right gear for the job.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilQ 0 #14 August 28, 2003 Is this it? [http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=12&topic_id=1498&mesg_id=1498&listing_type=search] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #15 August 28, 2003 QuoteIs this it? http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=12&topic_id=1498&mesg_id=1498&listing_type=search Nope. That looks like a follow up discussion. He actually posted a multiple paragraph discussion which was more a "how to". And I still can't find the darn thing.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DexterBase 0 #16 September 5, 2003 I looked for it for a few days now but I can't find it either. Hopefully Dwain will post some information. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
