gisellemartins

I will leave you with your ideas and your super sure predictions. After all we can not have a constructive healthy conversation if you are so sure that nothing gonna happen. You said until 2021 but I do believe the wingsuit design will evolve before than this time and for sure I will contact you for my 5000 and your apologies... By now go flying and relax, no point discussing something that still to happen, or never happen as you said and are sure of it =) Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Once again you saying WE, why instead of that you say me, Lurch and the other, instead of WE ALL? oh dear... For sure it is a deal, it will be the easiest 5000 I ever earned! Thanks for been a man of very sure predictions lol Speak with you in 20 years, and please keep your word dont disappear with my 5000 quid... Sometimes the ignorance can be so great that becomes comic... Take care Skwrl and start saving money =) BTW, I was never rude with You and Lurch, I was just tired of you and him always asking the same boring question many times, witch we all are tired to know the answer. If I told lurch to give us a brake, is because there were a reason, he was saying he was a skygod who had created super flying machines and because he failed everyone else will fail. If you are a wise person, you should know affirmations like that, is at last stupid! Take care Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Firstly how did you arrive the conclusion that " WE ALL DISAGREE WITH YOU"? Not everyone think like you on here I'm afraid, the greatest minds of wingsuit at the moment share the same ideas as me, so I dont know how you arrive to the conclusion of "WE ALL DISAGREE WITH YOU" I'm in contact with 2 main manufactures, and soon one of the latest wingsuit that will be released, have a little of my ideas on it! Secondly you text is boring, you did an enormous text saying the same boring thing. We already discuss it before, and we all VERY WELL AWARE, about the drag and muscle fadique. What I suggest is a fiber from wing tip to wing tip cross the back of the pilot witch helps him keeping his arms open without any efforts, of course the fiber have a joint on the back to allow the pilot close the wing inside the plane and to walk and also to dive and have access to the handle chute Anyway as other wingsuits designers aware me, to not waist my time and precious ideas in a forum full closed minded "jumpers" you guys are wearing an airfoil capable to fly, so stop thinking like jumpers, get a book about free flight and start learning to be a pilot and be less ignorants! Anyway you seems to be very sure that with latest technologies and new ideas, nothing is going to work and nothing is going to change, so I will leave you to your small world after all I cant change your mind can I? Best Regards Giselle You do realize why we all disagree with you on this, right Giselle? I don't think anyone ever fully explained it previously. I think most people basically said "no, that won't work", but didn't elaborate. I'm going to lay this out for you and hopefully it will clarify some of your ideas. Hopefully, you can take this information and rethink your designs. We would welcome you in the skydiving community (if you haven't already started jumping) and the wingsuit community (once you get the appropriate experience). And we would welcome you to design suits, once you understand the forces that are actually at work on the wingsuit pilot. But believe me - if something approaching your design actually could work, Tony/Jeff and/or Robi would have snatched up the approach and made the Condor, the Q-Bird, or whatever the Hell they would call it. Enthusiasm is a great thing, and something that should be encouraged, but enthusiasm without an understanding of how the physics of gliding works or an understand of what has been attempted before is a dead end. OK, here we go: As you increase the size of a wing (the wingspan), you also increase the "induced drag" created by the wing. In layman's terms, that means the bigger the wing, the more the wingsuiter's arms are put under strain. At some point, even a very strong human will not be able to hold the wing open in flight due to the load placed on his arms. So, absent some form of airframe, I highly doubt even the strongest of us would be able to hold open the wing that you have in your avatar. Take the largest of the current wingsuit designs these days, like the Xbird or the Stealth2. These are tiny wings compared to what you want in your future design, right? But even with those relatively tiny wings, flight is exhausting. Maxed out flight feels like a damn hard work out - there have been times when I've flown an XS or Xbird maxed out, only to find my arms very shaky at pull time. Induced drag is a hell of a strain. Don't believe me? Check out this guy: http://www.parapente-saintevictoire.com/leshommesoiseaux/rudolf boehlen.jpg. His name was Rudolf Boehlen. He used light weight (for the time) materials to create a very large wing, as you can see. So large that he couldn't even stand up on the ground without assistance (in that picture, there is actually a man standing behind him helping him up). The wing handled, by all accounts, very badly - the induced drag generally pinned his arms closed - or open but one at a time - resulting in crazy spins and erratic falling. Not surprisingly, he died as a result of gear problems. Now, your reaction to Boehlen may be "but now we have space age polymer whatsit fabric thingies that are way lighter!". But the problem isn't the standing weight of the wing. The problem (as I mentioned before) is the induced drag created by it. We bump up into limitation imposed by the human body - we didn't evolve from a creature that needed to hold weight in that way, so we don't have the muscles to do so. OK, so with that background, it becomes clear that a rigid frame is needed, right? Perhaps the rigid frame is integrated into the "suit". In that case it is functionally a hang glider. Maybe a funky design of a hang glider (one in which you zip up into), but once you add a rigid frame, you're moving away from what we think of as a modern wingsuit and into something that is far more akin to a hang glider. Since there have been a lot of rigid wing "batsuits" in the past, I'm not going to say that such a design wouldn't be considered by some to be a wingsuit, but it would look and function almost nothing like either what is currently in the market or your design. (There's a reason, for example, that hang gliders are generally delta wings, not like the albatross shape you have come up with.) So why not basically take a hang glider wing and make the attachment for the pilot basically be something he zips up into. There's a reason why: hang glider pilots generally hang a bit BELOW (several feet) the wing - by moving their center of gravity below the wing, the wing become far, far, far more stable. So if the center of gravity is in the wing, stability and control become a major problem. (Research "flying wing" aircraft - there's a reason why you don't see many of them outside of the military, where the design is used because it has a low RADAR profile.) OK, that means that we need to put the pilot slightly below the wing in our new wingsuit.... Congratulations, we've invented the classic hang glider. A related problem is that we would need to redesign the parachute harness system. We would need a spring loaded pilot chute design, since the traditional bottom of container deployment system would not be reachable. There are again reasons why people don't like spring loaded pilot chutes. If you look into the history of that, you'll find out more. Another problem is that you won't (easily) be able to exit from an aircraft - at least an aircraft other than a tailgate aircraft. Several people (Leo Valentin being the most famous) died using rigid wing designs that either didn't quite get out the door safely (Valentin's broke when it hit the door frame and it killed him) or were designed to "snap open" and the the predictable went wrong. So basically your dream of gliding thermals is a great one and I applaud it. However, you're starting from the wrong point - you should be thinking about hang gliders, not wingsuits. It's as though you said "I want to climb Mt. Kilimanjaro, so I should learn to kayak." It's the wrong tool for the job. Could you modify a wingsuit to achieve your goal? Maybe, but at the end of your modifications, the resulting thing would look far more like a hang glider than a wingsuit. It also won't look like your albatross design (research hang glider shapes to learn why). It would be more of a delta wing. As I said before, I really like your enthusiasm. And this isn't a case of "they laughed at the Wright Brothers, too" (they laughed at Bozo the Clown for what that's worth). But this is a case of a lot of years spent - and many lives lost - by many experienced engineers, equipment manufacturers and experienced test pilots providing feedback and evolving the technology that we have. Good luck. Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Impressive answer!! I wouldn't expect this kind of answer from a wingsuit pilot, unless he is sailplane, HG or PG pilot also. What you said is very true, but that wind would be hard to find and also dangerous, actually on a currently wingsuit like Fusion or Xbird you dont need that much of wind to soar. But as the wingsuit improves performance, the necessity of strong winds go lower, so lets wait and see what the futures hold for us on wingsuit flight. Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Surprisingly I agree with you in something... Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Now I think you are nuts!! Are you sure you a HG pilot? Because gliding at 50km/h at trim speed and diving at 150km/h is far from being too slow for non powered flight! it is fast indeed! Of course wingsuit have lots of velocity because it doesnt have a good glide ratio and sink rate yet so it just fall, but soon as wingsuits starting having better GR and Less sink rate it will fly just fast as a HG or a bit faster but with around same glide ratio. Currently wingsuit already improved a lot their Gide and Sink in the past few years. Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Quote It's true! Just like a tree, wingsuits grow with time... forever and ever. In 50-100 years they will be big enough to fly up just by sneezing. Quote If they are going to grow like a tree for 100 years I'm not sure, also I'm not sure if they are going to fly just by a sneezing like you said. But with the experience I have with non powered airfoils/aircrafts they do tend to develop a lot, because are a lot or margin to work with. And seeing the devolpement of the wingsuit since it has beggan only a decade ago, they have developed a lot, and all aspects only in 10 years and new ideas are yet to come as the sport grows... But then, I dont think a wingsuit will ever grow like a tree, do you really think that? Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Im a paraglider Pilot and did hangliding in the past. Dont worry learning hangliding. it is heavy and bulky around 40kg, wingsuit is lighter and easier to carry to the hill to fly. Wingsuits are getting bigger and slower, with better sink rate and better glide ratio, soon wingsuits will be big enough to be able to fly up in thermals and ridge soaring give it 5-10 years time. By now start skidiving because its a lot of jumps until you start flying a proper wingsuit! Best wishes Gisele Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Sounds great! any pictures? Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Its not the time for trying to land a wingsuit yet. Wingsuit still too small and fast for it, wait a few years when it get bigger with better glide ratio, lower sink rate and less speed. If someone try to land a X-bird, Stealth or Fusion the person will die or end up with seriously injuries, He/She can make it once, but most probably he/She will die in following attempts. The time now is to work on the sink rate of wingsuits, not much on glide ratio.. Glide ratio will increase together with lowering the sink rate. Have fun landing with a parachute by now, otherwise you will die and not see a wingsuit landing properly in the future! Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Oh Timmyfitz u so out the track I dont think the posts i did here since the first one is without knowledge, maybe u have been reading just the funny ones that makes u laugh... Honestly after all my efforts, time spent, lots of knowledge exposed come someone and tell me this i feel completely frustrated! anyway im off now Thanks Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Lurch u are unbelievable!! as i could say a completely strange person, i really hope dont meet people like u when i start jumping. U were very agressive and unpolite in your words, and now u trying to be a good boy, no problem i see people like that sometimes in my work. U always say "us" "we" know it will not work! are u sure every single pilot here have the same opnion as you? Do u know how many private messages i received giving me congratulations and they agree with my ideas? Look Lurch i had enough experience with people like u, i wont spend anyone more minute of my precious time replaying your nosense conversation. Can u please do a favor for me and you and everyone else here? Stop saying u know everything, were a super hero who flow super machines, that you were super designer and becaue your ideas didnt work nobody ideas gonna work either! Get a life my friend! learn more speak less! U take care. Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Hi The111 we already talked about it in few topics above but i will show u again no problem A paraglider of 10m2 is able to soar on a lift and get thermals with a pilot around 80kg with no problem as u can see on this video (wind hiting the montail at 18knots) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7mqTpBwtsE In my crazy wingsuit of 4m span as u said, would be around 38% smaller than this small paraglider but still able do the same things in a bit stronger wind and a bit stronger thermal. once the wingspan grows, will be necessary less wind and weak thermals to do the same job. Futuristic scenario: when the pilot exit of a plane of montain he keeps gliding his winsuit in stable air falling suppose at 5 m/s and he hits a big thermal ball going up a 7m/s so the result is ( 7 - 5 = 2m/s ) so the wingsuit pilot gonna start to flying up at 2meters/sec, (6-7m/s thermals are kind normal around the globe but in same places it can reach 15m/s so u make your own calculations in what hate u gonna climb up) once the pilot start making circles inside the big thermal like eagles, PG, HG etc he will climb up till the cloudbase (cloudbase sometimes can be very hight around 4000meters) once he gets in the cloude base where the thermal condensate and stop climbing he also will stop and have to glide to find another thermal... Cheers Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

ops! now the photo is attached with the message! cheers Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Updated picture with the pilot with the wings closed using the articulate joints on his back, usefull to walk or when inside the plane. Any suggestion for our futuristic dream wingsuit? have all a good day Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Hi Fasted your idea is really good, this way u showed is the same thing i explained but in my view it would be on the back of the pilot allowing him to close his wing inside the plane and open it when he come out! But also your suggestion with same thing for the middle of the wing is also very considerable, it would add more weight and articulation but also it would add more mobility in flight... send me some draw prototypes to my email... Sorry for my poor english have a good day Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Lurch Thats one of the reason i feel tiring to replay your coments too much nonsense and sometimes it makes me look arrogant but i will do my best to answer you one more time wihout be. Are u sure u are having fun with wingsuit? because u keep mentioning powered flight! wingsuit pilots love and fly wingsuits because they want to feel the air hiting on their faces freedom natural way to fly, cheap no polution etc.. if they want a noisy engine in their head they would go fly small aircraft! Also have u ever study or hear about thermals and lift? its one of the most power full forces int he world i can climb up on the thermal on my paraglider a 15m/s up faster than many small aircratfts! Second thing! YES U SAID, with arrogance not much respect at me that winsuit will NOT FLY UP IN A THOUSAND OF YEARS. why did u change your mind so quick from THOUSAND OF YEARS to DOZEN OF YEARS? Also u dont need tell exact things to me that ive said before, the origin idea that the wingsuit would look like the picture i post on this forum in a dozen of years was made by me and critize by you remember? Honestly for me you seems have no concrete ideas, the way u show it, its messy, confusing and sometimes arrogant! Have fun Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

OI oi, when i said "I will pattent it soon when i start designing my own wingsuit" i was only joking as u guys can check in the original message! but if i have time and money enough to be a very experienced wingsuit pilot for sure i wont stop just looking i will try to help with my ideas! anything wrong with that? I was just wondering the possibilities with the winsguit in the future and show what ive had in mind about it! I strongly believe in everything i said, maybe i sounded a bit arrogant because sometimes in foruns members make silly afirmations without know well what they are talking about. but im not an arrogant person. Most times the things i believed happened and ive had experience enough to see that it will happen soon or later, i think the wingsuit will look something close of what i showed and said, but i do feel attacked, my ideas rejected etc Thats not a problem, i cant be bothered it anyway... The important thing is have fun make your life worth it and contribute with your knowledge to make this world a better place in all the aspects! but if one day i see nodoby gonna try to make it, and i see i will have problems but is not impossible, i would try to make my dreams come true out of papers, i did it before i can do it again... dream and wishes that keep people moving... BTW i hope this forum and this topic last a good dozen of years because i wont forget a shortsight of few pilots about we discuss here, save the picture i uploaded here in your desktop and watch what is next in the next years... the only f***ing thing that annoys me is like on other ares of tecnology when they manage to do smething nice that was critized by others, the short sight come with ironic face and say " oh well u were right " but in the f*****ing past u were the ******* ones trying to stop the good guys of making good things that u gonna f****king use! aff anyway scientist are already used to this kind of situation i cant be much bothered with it also! have all a good day Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Who said i want to design wingsuits? i just make suggestions of what i think the wingsuit will look and work like one day! Also when u say because i fly gliders it doesnt quilify me design wingsuit is that absulute true? i dont want to design wingsuit anyway but everything is relative! one the best paragliders design in the world he is not an engineer he is a biologist! many of famous car designers in the past they werent engineers. Probably when i start flying wingsuit i will be too busy having fun in the air than come here to regreat about what i said. And for sure IF in a dozen of years the wingsuit be in the way i think it will be, if u dont come here to open this topic ashamed of yourself after what u said i will be arrogant enough as u mentioned, to open the topic again and ask u why u said NEVER! Lurch just remember u said it will NEVER! Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Wow, first of all i didnt mean to be offensive at all i was just tired of some that dont read all the topics come criticise a message that was answered before and i had to write it all again its tiring and a bit stressfull. u seems to be very sure that it will NEVER work because u tryed it yourself. Yes like i was beginner pilot in others sports i will be with wingsuit now, i already booked some sessions of windtunnell. Anyway if in a dozen of years a wingsuit look like the one in the picture that i put here, i hope u open this topic again to remember u said it will NEVER work! Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

when I was in elementary school, we were told that we'd be living on the moon in my lifetime. We were told that no one would ever want a "computer at home" because they ate too much power and were too big. We were told that living on the bottom of the sea would be common-place. They even once sold space shuttle tickets, because the space shuttle was going to be "common travel" in 20 years. 40 years later, the shuttle program is being scrapped. Sure...in "thousands of years" we might have something along the lines of what you're talking about, but in a thousand years, human bodies won't be very much like they are today either. Get your butt into a wingsuit and learn to fly in the "now" and not the "tomorrow." I promise you'll understand the dreams of tomorrow once you've experienced the reality of today. i agree 100% with u that if i want to understand it better i need to start flying a wingsuit first and i already booked my windtunnel to help me get some skills... Tho Ive been in the air probably thousands time more than u, ive got accumulated knowledge about flying machines and aeorinamics much more than u can imagine, the things i mention is completely unerstandable and real for another person like me but completely confused and nosense for you. PS. I would like to suggest u something... if u have discovery channel at yours watch this week --- Stephen Hawking - Universe the origin of everthing. Its really worth it. Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Jets, anti gravity devices, that's how it's prolly gonna be.. Hi Sangi when u say something to fly need to be complex and not nylon, depends for what kind of fly u want if u want powered supersonic aircraft to fly probably u are right nylon wont be good, but if u want only a wing to fly and glide i think nylon have been doing an amazing job so far, ballons are made of nylon, flexible hangliders and paragliders are made of nylon and all of them are succesfull non powered machines able to take and fly up for hours and hours. Of course there are rigid hanggliders like the ATOS from the germany company A.I.R and they fly much better than flexible hanggliders made of thick nylon. but it doesnt mean that nylon is uselles, in my opnion for the kind of fly i want for myself , take off from a montain or a plane and be able to glide and fly up for many hours wihout using any powered engine and maybe landing for me Nylon is the best material ever for it, strong, flexible and light! Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

Hi Sethinmi, exoeskeleton could help in the flexibility of the wing but it would add a vast amout of weight on the wingsuit and also too many complications, also would be too expensive. The Flexibility we need can be achieved with a joint on the fibers in the pilots back, allowing you to close your wings and open, allowing you to dive and glide anytime u want. When i say joint many pilots gonna think oh ok but with the joint we wont be able to hold such a big wing with our muscle, the solution could be that the joint is flexible only in a horizontal way when the "pilot in flight position" not on vertical way! its allows u to to turn easily, dive but the pilot wont make efforts to keep the wing opened at all. Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

I manage to post the picture.

Like the most Italians i know u speak too much, with nosense... We are not speaking about jet powered airfoils here. Did u read all the messages or u just come straight to end and coment? once again... the way the carbon fiber can be placed in the back the pilot wont need to make effort to keep his wings open. Are u Nustradamus or do u have a cristal ball to say that the wingsuit wont be able to fly up in a thousand of years? u makes me remember the people tho said to Santos dumond than nothing heavy than the air could fly up and laughed on him and soon he flow for the first time in the humanity history with his 14bis around eifell tower for 15 minutes! Do u know how many people before him died trying to realize the same thing? Also Accord to the scientists great minds like Stephen Hawking people gonna be living in mars in 500 years time. Now u ask me, am i gonna believe in you and all the old fashioned minds who doubt about what few humans are able to do or believe on the great minds who creat most things in this world that u use to make your life more confortable and easy? no need to answer in it Im trying to upload a picture of a wingsuit prototype i have in mind but im have some issues... Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20