remko

No... Adding links, just like adding weight, is about balancing a formation. It's not about trying to find an advantage. It's about taking away the advantage/disadvantage. Start off with getting the right person under the right size canopy and if the right size happens to be unavailable patch up with links and/or weights. While fine tuning even sliders, clothing or an open pilot chute can make a difference.

So, being heavy (fast) is good if you are in the base (picture a 70+ way, he he :-)) but if you are a wing and have more speed than the rest of the formation you are much more likely to come around than if you are light (slow). The way this affected the big ways was not only in the lateral (wing - center - wing) but also in the vertical (top - center - point). Imagine a fast top, tilting the formation forward, increasing it's speed... This was done with details like big vs small canopies and baggy vs tight clothes, all within a very small loadfator range (yes I have respect for those big-way designers). Another detail, getting there is more important for sequential/rotation, staying there is more important for big-ways. -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

This is not very clear. What I meant with 'range' was 'control input range'. Like how far you can pull toggles/risers before bad things happen, not distance traveled.

They are opposite ways of getting the same effect (more speed). I prefer extra links and let me explain why. Objective is to increase forward speed to match other jumpers (so you don't wear youself out hanging in front risers all the time trying to keep up). Adding weights will increase the loadfactor. Theoretically this will increase forward speed and only that. The glide angel will remain the same (you ride down the same hill with more weight). Practically speaking this is true within reasonable limits. Note that different size canopies with the same loadfactor do not have the same flight characteristics. A small canopy will have relatively more drag from lines, tape and stitches (giving it a steeper glide angel) and a large canopy will have more momentum (making it harder to stop). The result however is that a higher loaded canopy has less 'range'. It will stall at a higher speed, and you have less toggle/riser input available to maneuver. With extra links you change the way the canopy is trimmed (make sure your steering lines are long enough) giving it a higher angel of incidence. It gives more speed because this results in a steeper glide angel (you ride down a steeper hill). This makes it easier to stay down with a formation while flying next to it. It makes it easier to float up because you have an extra inch of rear riser range. It makes it easier to kill forward speed while docking because of less momentum. And your stall margin is bigger (can fly slower). Now, be aware that this is not wonder medicine. A novice might not even have enough finesse to notice the difference, but at least a less loaded canopy is safer. And there is an option to combine the two so you don't end up hauling around 20 pounds of lead, and I wouldn't put in double links because this deforms the camber too much. -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

People I send e-mail to receive my message twice. I've seen this happen before with other dropzone members as well. Greetings, Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

As a follow up, It's a good idea to teach them the rest of the toolbox in an early stage, like Warping, Snapping, Whipping and Sashaying. All these are no contact. Warping: one toggle, one front riser. Use it to get or keep yourself down, or slow down. If you think brakes, use this (in stead of the common newbie error to pull both toggles and float up behind or even into a formation). Also a good exercise for a solo jump. Start with smooth inputs, concentrate to stay on heading. See how far you can pull the controls before you become unstable. This requires some extra coordination, since the toggle will be down much deeper than the frontriser. Practice metering the input. Practice small turns while in Warp. Make sure you learn it both ways. Next step is to practice more vigorous inputs, and also letting it up quickly while staying nicely on heading. Last stage is quick switching between deep front riser, Warp and toggle Do this while looking down, not up at the controls. (Now all you need to know is how to take a leg grip and you are ready for your first top dock ;-) Snapping: Deep front riser, build up some speed and just let go. Use it to bleed off some energy. Note the difference between this and letting the trim up smoothly. Whipping: whipping the tail. Pull down the toggles as fast and as hard as you can, and let them right back up. Has the same effect as the Snap. Also good in combination with the Snap to augment the effect. Sashay: Basically a left right turn combination. Mostly used to move back and down. Can be performed in many different ways, using a combination of rear riser, toggle and front riser. For example, one often used in rotation is first toggle to move a little up, aft and out, then deep frontriser to move back in, down and forward. One that is often used to dock a diamond is (I'm not saying this is the best way to do it, on the contrary...) while hanging besides a formation. Medium frontriser to get behind and below with some extra speed, then toggle or rear riser to turn back onto heading and float back up. One you can use to move back and up is gentle weaving with rear riser. One for getting down without getting to tired is using more prolonged toggle turns. If you find yourself doing short Sashays consider using Warp in stead. While we're at it, see if the newbie can reach up and pull a B-line, to make a B-line turn. Always nice to experiment with and be aware of. Note the effectiveness. Little flatter, less onset rate, but much less tiring than a front riser turn. Enjoy! -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

Now that I know it is supposed to be a joke I think it is a pretty darn good one! Can't believe I missed it, I even know you are a britt Watch the whales! -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

Yes it is invitation only, you can't just show up and tag along. But, they are recruiting. If you attend some of the big-way camps, for example the one in may, and show some decent flying, they might just let you in (If you ask politely). If not this year, maybe next time. If you really like this stuff, and my stomach starts feeling all weird when I even think about it, get with the project! Of course there is a lot of flying skill required but mostly being part of a big formations is about discipline (like don't reel in a locker when you are a wing ). Pay attention to what is expected from you and do it. Those big-ways look extremely complicated to engineer and they are, but we don't have to worry about all that. The organizers will take care of the details and they did an excellent job two years ago. All you need to do is follow their instructions meticulously. Let's not forget, we do this for a hobby, because we love the sport and want to share the joy. The 2003 objective was to let all the people into the WR, not to drop the weaker attendants and go for the biggest formation technically possible. That is the beauty of events like these, we have to compete together, not against each other. You are needed. Get an appetite at cluebox.org/~remko/writings/big-way_dock.html or http://www.dqnt.com/LowWingThing.htm and http://www.normankent.com/CRW2Gallery/ for pictures. Greetings, Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

The following is a copy-paste from http://www.cfworldrecord.com. Be there or be square :-) 2005 Canopy Formation World Record We are pleased to announce we will be organizing the next Canopy Formation World Record. This formation will be an 81 way diamond Please visit our website, in January, for more specific information Please send questions to : [email protected] or contact your regional contact / organizer Place: Florida Skydiving Center, Lake Wales, Florida U.S.A. Date: Saturday November 20th – Saturday November 26th 2005 Organizers: Chris J. Gay Mike Lewis Dave Richardson Mark Gregory Christophe Balisky Contacts: Chris J. Gay or Dave Richardson (USA contacts) [email protected] [email protected] Christophe Balisky (European contact) [email protected] Dave Richardson ( Event coordinator – Contact for all other countries) [email protected] Web Site: www.CFWorldRecord.com Email: [email protected]

Conventional pilot chutes can cause lots of trouble while transitioning to a side by side. You don't want them tangled up. Go and static-line some student canopies like Ravens or whatever if you don't have access to decent CReW gear. Downplanes are lots of fun, go for it! Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

I would strongly advise, needless to say it's just my opinion, to go for a 143 with standard sequential trim. A lot of people are set up that way. See http://www.cfworldrecord.com/canopyinfo.htm. You can always fine tune with an extra french link or weights. Get slick, that means, no reinforced nose, no flat packing tapes, no cotton top skin, a spider and a tight jump suit. Less drag gives better perfomence. People shouldn't be pulling your canopy so hard that you need those reinforcements and if you're pro-packing you don't need the packing tapes either. You can avoid the cotton if you use a kill-cone tail-pocket combination (pack the rings in the kill-cone, my preference) or a littlebit extra care while packing a D-bag. I prefer a spider over a mesh slider because of the improved view. Get the colored center cell like wendy said, or at least a colored nose section, and get uncascaded red outer and center A-lines as well (should be standard). Think about light and bright colors that are easy to find in the woods or swamp unless you're planning to do combat survival :-) and write your name, phone number and address on the tag. Happy shopping! Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

Here is a used 113: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=13981&d=1 but loading it 1.5 would be a bit much for a puppy. Maybe something for you Wendy? The crew gear is so rare that over here in the Netherlands the used stuff is more expensive than new in the States. Happy hunting, but if I were you Calvin I'd buy a nice crispy new 143. You won't regret it! Go for it! Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

This weekend (16/17) is the last training weekend for the Dutch record attempt next weekend (23/24) at Teuge airport The Netherlands. Target is a 36-way. Needless to say this will be a big crew event! Foreigners are welcome to watch and participate in a "biggest formation over Europe" if lift capacity allows. We'll try to get everybody present "on board". Check here for a babelfish.altavista.com translation of http://home.hccnet.nl/tom.kan/records/nl.html Email Kees Tops kees_AT_parachutecase.nl if you are planning on coming over (click for more contact info). Greetings, Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

I only learned about the seminar, which was organized by our English friends, in a very late stage. After some organization with family and work I decided to go. Booked a cheap flight from the Netherlands to Spain and got a bed in the bunkhouse. Driving from the airport of Gerona to Empuria we noticed the strong winds coming from the north. This would hamper us the first two days since no jumping was allowed under these conditions. But, don't wander off! Chris and Dave made sure this time was not lost by giving detailed briefings about all the aspects of flying bigway formations. Ofcourse this time was also spent on the scale, working on B-line attachments. I gave my magenta 126 to Bassie and got to fly his borrowed blue 143 with pink nose. One of the subjects that was very well covered also during the various debriefs was the crew toolbox. You hear often about "You have to slow down!" or "Don't jojo!", but very few will explain in detail how this is done. Being very well matched with the formation I noticed that I could use full flight to slowly outrun the formation, little rear riser (less than an inch) to gain height, toggle to slowly back up and warp (one toggle and one front riser) to loose height. Being very smooth is extremely important. I used inputs of less than an inch for these. To kill off some excess speed you can use what you might call a "snap", quickly jerking down the front risers and letting them snap up again, or if you are already in front riser just letting them snap up in stead of smoothly letting them up. An other tool is what you might call a "whip", aggressively whipping the tail by jerking the toggles. You should hear a cracking sound. Or warping the canopy. All these moves will disrupt the airflow and create drag and kill lift. So, if you find yourself approaching the formation with an uncomfortable speed, use one of these. Better yet, don't get fast on it! Common mistake: you fail to anticipate and are a bit high on the formation when it's you turn to dock. You make some chasees (toggle turns to loose height) these give you too much speed. You get scared and go into brakes. Up you go into your first jojo... That's why the sideways approach is being introduced. The conventional method of coming from behind and below has some disadvantages. It requires a fairly aggressive turn which is hard to judge. It can leave you with ether too much speed resulting in a hard dock, coming from below aggravates the situation by lifting the docked person making the diamond breathe. Or it leaves you low and behind, taking you for ever to dock. further more this approach is harder to follow by consecutive lockers and during the approach it's harder to anticipate on persons in front of you. On the sideways approach the absolute speed of the formation and the docker are almost the same. Closure is mostly being achieved by a slight difference in heading. This requires minimal steering inputs and adjustments are easily made. Level can be adjusted by using the variety of steering inputs explained above. On various occasions I would be waiting on number 4 so I could take a number 5 or 6 slot. I'd take a position level with 2 and 3 about only one canopy width away. Once I saw number 4 stuck low and behind (this 3-way is especially fast and floaty) It was very easy for me to just "slide" closely behind, passing my canopy in between the canopy and body of 2 or 3, adjusting smoothly with just a tad of front, rear, warp or toggle. No excess speed to kill. This approach looks very slow because there is very little closure, but there is also very little distance to travel and it is easy to judge and easy to follow by consecutive lockers. It is smoother, quicker and safer. Safer because misjudgment will less likely result in a wrap. It's almost like bumping end cells. The debriefings were very structured and very useful. Detailed discussions were provoked about what controls and references people were using to set up and fly their approach. Not boring but to the point. Excellent, very exciting! The same was true for the dirt dives. The pilot would lead the general flow, explain the characteristics of the different intermediates, big picture stuff, and delegate the details to the wings who would have short elaborations about the positions in the echelon and the approach and so forth. One lesson that was (re)learned is not to go "go go gadget arm" to reel in lockers while being a wing. This one might have caused Wendy to loose her canopy. I had been brainwashed in the Netherlands that this is just not done. At the seminar it had been mentioned that under certain circumstances it was possible. In this particular case I was row 3 wing and the row 4 wing caught a locker close to the center cell and tried to hand it over to the number 7. As could later be seen on the video our side got pulled down so much that made it impossible for the opposite row 4 wing to fly and it (she) came around. Not a pretty sight. Luckily this rule is not (yet) written in blood but only in dollars: Dock to the center, don't catch a docker if you're not the center. I know now, not because someone told me, but because I saw with my own eyes. And there's an other reason. Don't salvage a badly flow approach, give the person an opportunity to practice an other approach, be patient. Overall this seminar was well worth it's 40 Euros registration fee and I would like to give Chris and Dave most of the credits for it and the rest to all the enthusiastic and talented flyers around me that made the bigways so much fun to fly, and all that beer so much fun to drink! Greetings, Remko Oh yeah, Richard Hayden made all the numbers add up. Let's not forget about that :-) PS: I just checked Empuria's website on http://skyrats.com it has loads of beautiful stills and even some movies of the event. Enjoy! -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

Here are some pictures of the seminar. (login: "crew" key: "cut4W4Y") This was on Gauda's birthday (day before Wendy's birthday). When I have time I'll write some more about lessons (re)learned and the like. Greetings, Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

I don't know about that. Anybody has any experience with it? It wouldn't work for the ring-kill though. The attachment of the bridle to the center ring will be in the way for the pilot chute to enter it. A possible solution would be to attach it to the webbing that holds the ring but the deformation of the webbing has consequences for the strength of that construction (concentration of forces to the outer stitches). I wouldn't advise it. Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

relyon wrote in thread 835373: `IIRC, the Lightning bridle is 79" long for 176s and smaller.' I gave this some more thought and had some correspondence with Rusty Vest about it. Lightning canopy sizes evolved over time and PD just used a few different bridle lengths. It was simply never an issue (in the past). Recently I came up with a formula to calculate proper bridle length using the 176 as a base: 113 : 64" 126 : 67" (flight tested) 143 : 71" 160 : 75" 176 : 79" (standard PD length) 193 : 83" 218 : 88" 235 : 91" 253 : 95" These should leave about up to 1 inch between the pilot and the middle ring. I am very confident about the numbers but I say `should' because I have flight tested it only for the 126. My advice is to have it checked in flight first before you have it trimmed. Feedback is highly appreciated. Enough data to back it up will bring it into main-line. These lengths are ok for all configurations: throw-away or pull-out, tail-pocket with optional kill-cone or deployment-bag with large or small grommet. Now there are still two ways to go about fixating the bridle in the retracted position and collapsing the pilot. The Y-finger-trap modification (see attachment) with kill-cone or large grommeted bag, or having the pilot pulled into the middle ring. There are some cons to the latter: - Not all pilot chutes will pull smoothly into the middle ring. - The tension on the bridle may deform the canopy. - Not suitable for deployment-bag systems with small grommet. - Bridle gets awfully short on a 113 (57" or less). - They are not interchangeable. If you do choose the pilot in ring method, lightly pull the bridle and see if and how far it will go into the ring. 6-8 inches should be enough, no more than 12. Conclusion: 1) Make sure your bridle has a correct length. 2) Make sure it stays retracted, no matter what happens to your canopy. A little investment in time and money might prevent a cut-away and loss off or damage to equipment, or worse... Fly safe, Remko

~~~ --=8 >=8 ~~~ Think about a `high' dock. At the receiver end, when you foot-grip a cascaded line low you will end up with both A & B around your foot. Not so with non cascaded lines. Further more you can pull an outside B-line (if your risers aren't too long, otherwise have them shortened by a rigger) and steer with it just like a front-riser but with much less force. It will give you less sink than trim (front riser) and less float than toggle. Perfect for wing flying or an occasional spiral. Try it, like it, learn to use it. (You know CReW-dogs pull just about anything to steer their canopies :-) Gr, Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

Hop & Pops is all I do (CReW) and I never wear goggles. Don't like helmets but not proud of it. Hook-knife(x2) is on the top of my list, alti on the bottom, nothing in between. Will exit without but no CReW. -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

My softest opening, much like a "sniveling stiletto", was with brakes unstowed on a 126, loaded about 1.45. Propacked nicely flaked all the way to the tail, spider tucked straight down. End cells rolled 3 times _outward_, exposing the center cell. Tail rolled and then free packed (tail pocket). The opening was on heading but no statistics on this yet. I know people who haven't stowed brakes for years ;-) I have just recently experimented with this because I never had any problems with hard openings until I had to borrow a 143 for the WR last november. Surprisingly enough this D-bagged canopy gave me slammers! Rolling the nose inward and tucking it in the center cell did nothing but throwing me off heading. A rigger advised me to roll the tail really tight around the lines (no tail pocket). This helped. Hint: `Your search for hard opening returned 16 results'. Gr, Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

Make sure they are short enough. You should be able to reach an outside B-line with ease for trimming and an occasional spiral. Go for a spider, not a mesch slider, much better vision. Gr, Remko -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

Hmmm... If I remember correctly the cross connector originates from escape systems which had quick release buckles in front of the shoulders. The risers were "cross connected" left-right because these quick release buckles sometimes failed (or were prematurely activated). The same system was later used for crew (for the above mentioned reason) but they snagged the reserve container. They were modified "front-aft" and are also called stirups. A simple solution here is to use student rigs with old Ravens or what have you. Static line them, no pilot chutes! You might like this old thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=62134 Greetings, Remk0 -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

Fly smooth! I could leave it at that but here are some more thoughts that erupted my feeble mind during and after the 2003 CF World record. Docking on a big-way is much like catching a wave while surfing. Paddling out there. (the exit, spiral down and flight toward the formation) lurking (waiting in echelon) and catching the wave (turn-in and dock). Most of all it requires discipline and timing. (Keep in mind that wing-loading differences were very small: 1.30 - 1.375). So here you have it: Paddling out there I vote against exit delays over 3 seconds on Lightnings. I borrowed a chute with deployment bag, rolled in the nose and tail as far as I dared but these sledge hammer openings are just no fun. Consider packing with brakes unstowed. Have the trailing jump-ships pass the formation level. Let them make a slight turn outward (10-20 deg) and start a slow descent (500-100'/min). Now you won't have to spiral down like a bat out of hell to make it down to the formation and get there all dizzy and exhausted. Exit spacing should be 2 sec. An airplane dropping at 45 m/s (87 knots) gives 90 meters spacing (100 yards). For a chute flying 15 m/s (34 mph) this is 6 seconds spacing. Perfect if you have two planes dropping simultaneously. Lurking As these bad boys are getting bigger and bigger (64+ :-) I think it wouldn't hurt to add a bit more structure than just a simple echelon. To make the hole process well ordered and surveyable I suggest the echelon being flown in separate groups led by the Wings with the respective lockups, some spacing, then the next Wing with his group of lockups. Stay on the 45 degree line in front and level with the top half of the formation. When the last lockup of the previous group starts his final approach Wing moves to the line-abreast position close to and about level to the previous Wing, in such a way that he can see the signal of the receiver of the Point. The rest of the group drops back to line abreast to slightly forward and level with Wing, closing it in as to allow for small chasees (little left-rights on toggles). Now is the time to access the speed and sink of the formation. Catching the wave Here comes the magic. We want split times of 3-10 seconds, minimum 10 seconds between Point and Wing. This does NOT require a FAST approach, it requires a SMOOTH approach AND CLOSE to your predecessor. Look at it this way, during rotation you can't start until your team mate has docked, so small split times require fast docks. This doesn't apply here, you don't have to wait. The smoother the guy in front of you flies, the easier it is for you to anticipate his moves and follow him very closely. Big-ways require smooth docks, flying close makes the small split times possible. When you see Wing is about ready to go make sure you're level and close it in to one to two canopy widths. Cross-check between Wing, the lockup in front (Follow his movements, don't run in to him. It's your responsibility to stay out of his way!) and the lockup behind you (don't run in to him ether, although he should stay out of your way) Be ready to go! Anticipate on Wing. Wing sees the sign and goes. He makes a smooth little front-riser turn into the formation, adjusts for height with front-riser, scoots it in kinda sideways, never drops further behind than one canopy length, maybe two, no lower than one, times his turn-in, a little toggle. Now he is on final (last 10 feet) 45 degrees off the tail, about 30 degrees low. If he bulls-eyed it he will be able to ride it in with a tad of front-riser. He stops the forward motion by letting up the front-risers. Boom (whispering), there he is, nice soft dock. He counters the tendency of floating with a little outside front-riser, gently setting his canopy. He lets up the trim smoothly, transitions into a little outside B-line controlling the tension with maybe an inch of inside toggle. His name is called. He looks to the right and sees his neighbor handing him the canopy of his lockup, both take leg grips at the same time, confirming it so they can bet on their mothers grave that it is correct. He sits and waits for the next Wing to come, always flying his canopy, smoothly. Then it's your turn. You see Wing go. His lockup follows him right away, very close. The next one too. A split second later it's you doing a nice controlled little front-riser turn. Your job is easy, you just follow the lockup in front of you, closely, searching for your target, adjusting just like wing did. You have more sideways distance to travel, this enables you to loose the extra height. Frantically you are scanning for the colors you have been trying to learn by hart. There it is, the green and blue canopy, with the black and white jump suit. You time your turn-in. Looking for the correct rejoin line, 45 degrees off the tail, 30 degrees low. You notice you are too low, so you float with a little rear riser, correcting up. You do this ASAP so your final can be smack on, riding on a little front-riser. The Formation is surging and as you come closer it gets a little bumpy, but you fly it smooth, to put your end-cell under the receivers arm pit. He takes a hand grip, reaching it out to the lockup above you. You feel fabric brushing your legs but you concentrate on flying your canopy, gently setting it with a little trim, just like Wing did. You see the grips being taken, so you can bet on your mothers grave. Now you are ready to look to the inside, take a hand and a leg grip, ready to suspend 200 lbs of fear if things go wrong. But they don't, because you hold the canopies out and aft, arching like a free fouler, checking back over your shoulder and down for the next dawg, while checking above if you're not to light or heavy and checking left and right, to see if things are level. All the time arching like a... -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

I borrowed a 143 with deployment bag which opened a lot harder than my 126 with tail-pocket. When I measured lines for the event I discovered that the 126 has a very deep brake setting. I wonder which is the biggest contributing factor, the loadfactor, the tail-pocket or the brake setting. It almost seems that half brakes on the Lightning are tuned for slammers. Were these no brake openings consistent and on heading?

At Lake Wales I saw 3 and heard of 1 entanglement with deployment bags/pilot chutes. I think we need a 'Y' finger-trapped tab modification on the bridle to hook behind the middle ring after opening to preclude the pilot chute + bag to extend when the canopy collapses during a rough dock or when the canopy is hard pointed. I just got mine modified. -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.