JCW1966

I hear ya. You're obviously experienced enough to know the nature of some here in the forums. Those are the ones you have to ignore. They would argue with a wall. Regardless of how stupid or mindless a mistake may seem to some there's always something to learn from it even if it's as simple as don't do it again.

An online raffle. Almost every boogie I've been to has had a raffle with prizes donated by gear manufacturers, etc... If someone can organize a boogie and get stuff donated for a raffle why can't the USPA do it? The only difference is it would need to be done online so the membership could participate regardless of their location. If 20,000 of the membership spent 10 or 20 bucks on raffle tickets you're looking at 200,000 to 400,000 bucks raised. I would spend 20 bucks for a chance to win a new container, chute, aad, etc... Heck I've spent 20 bucks for a chance to win 40% off on a new Mirage container before. And make the winners pay all shipping costs for their prizes as well. Also have an article in Parachutist telling the readers about the raffle, the why behind it, list of prizes, and who donated what. You can buy lottery tickets online maybe it's time to have a raffle online.

So is the case really solved or is the FBI giving up? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070038/DB-Cooper-case-solved-FBI-tells-niece-skyjacking-suspect-matching-fingerprint.html

for more info be sure to check out http://www.johns-events.org/ and http://www.honormikespann.org/

Video is done, enjoy!

http://www2.alabamas13.com/news/2011/nov/25/alabama-native-who-was-killed-war-remembered-throu-ar-2755797/ http://www.11alive.com/news/article/214586/40/Marking-a-somber-anniversary-by-skydiving Congrats to John Souders for taking the old AL state record of 41 jumps in a day and setting a new one of 101. I will post video links when I'm done putting everything together. *side note: the 100 jumps were done from 2000' and the 101st jump was from 14k with a few others and Johnny Spann, Mike's father, going along for his first tandem.

Yeah I think it would be a stretch too. Just wanted to point out how their logic could be used to justify that line of thinking.

Had an interesting conversation with someone who does demos. But the thing that they said that stuck in my mind the most is this. If the USPA can loan money to start a demo team regardless of the conflict of interest it may have with it's membership, then what is to stop them from opening a dz and directing business to it? Same difference. The BOD is using membership dues to fund something that may wind up competing with the membership whose dues were loaned out to finance this to begin with. Doesn't matter if it's a demo team, a dz, or an aircraft leasing business. It's a conflict of interest for a governing body to do such a thing using it's membership dues. I have a trip to Longbeach, CA in February. Anyone have the dates and location for the BOD meeting they're having? I would like to drop in and watch our BOD in action.

I know there's been a lot of discussion about this whole mess but I haven't seen this mentioned yet. If they can make one "loan", what will stop them from making another? The 10k loan was for ICAS and marketing the team. They have done one demo for free. They're going to need another loan soon.

Do they even have a team yet? Gear & accessories needed? No, but they'll loan 10k to go to ICAS to promote something that isn't even in existence as a whole yet. Ignorance, arrogance, or both? I dunno but it amazes me too.

I agree with you 100% on everything. And 110% on your quote above. That 10k loan is gone. We can chalk that up to the BODs leadership. And that is where the problem really begins. The BOD can't back down now. They have to make sure this demo team succeeds just to make sure the loan gets paid back. They've dug themselves into a hole that there is no way out but to proceed with their plans. And then they can only get out of that hole if their plans succeed. I've ground crewed demos for 5 years +. Only a few pay the big bucks. A certain Major League Baseball team which you would think would be a big paying demo won't even pay for fuel much less plane rental, jumpers, or special effects. They want you to do it for free. It's a privilege that they are letting you jump into their stadium. I can think of a lot better ways to make a living or a business to have than a demo team. Demos are fun, they're great for the sport, but most of them stink when it comes to the money. Now I know there are some big demos that pay well. But those demos are done by the same teams already. What is the USPA going to do, steal their business? And here's what is really sad. It takes years and years of practice and doing demos to get routines down, to make things better, to be the best. The USPA team is going to be that good in 6 months? This whole mess will end up doing more bad than it will good for the image of the sport. And this is where the BOD has led us with it's leadership skills.

Well that would work if you could trust them. And the way it's going right now the brand isn't worth as much as their inflated egos would like to believe. You might have to lower GMDZ dues if you want it to reflect what the "brand" is worth. Lets take a look at their track record. A BOD that has DZO's on it who are going to do what is best for their business and not necessarily for skydiving in general. This is a conflict of interest that has been going on for a very long time and one that I think definitely subtracts from the "brand" worth of the USPA. A BOD that got sued by Cary Q. And attorneys got paid with our dues to fight a legal battle they couldn't win. How much did that snafu cost? That "brand" worth just went down a little bit more. And now a BOD that not only approves lame brained ideas without consenting it's membership. But a BOD that has made a 10k loan to someone who is basically starting a business that will compete with the business of some of the USPA members whose dues helped make the loan to begin with. And let's not forget that the offices and personnel of the USPA will be used to promote this business as well as handle it's reservations. The "brand" worth just lost some more value with this move. If you haven't read it yet here is what James Hayhurst has to say about this brilliant plan of his: http://skydiveuspa.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/team-sponsor-dev-program/ 10k of membership dues is gone, been used to pay for this trip to ICAS, booth resrvations, etc... And we are to trust this person who using the USPA for his own personal business venture to make sure the 10k gets paid back? The USPA "brand" worth is looking about as bad as stock in Lehman Brothers right now. The time for talk was over the minute they started spending 10k on this ICAS deal without anyone's approval but their own. I for one do not appreciate an organization that I pay dues to using that money for a business venture that will compete with other due paying members, some of who happen to be good friends of mine as well. Conflict of interest is an understatement here and attorneys may be the only way to get the BODs attention. They're not going to listen to you, me, or thousands of others are they? And if they don't listen to the membership then their "brand" worth isn't worth squat. I for one am all for canning their butts right now. Voting them out will take too long. We just had elections what last fall? And elections will come up again in about a year. The 2011 - 2012 BOD hasn't even made it through 2011 and they have already wasted 10k of the membership dues that may or may not get paid back. Depends on whether or not this business venture, and that's what is, fails or not. If they wanted to loan James Hayhurst money to do this they should have taken it out of their own pockets or he should have went and got himself a business loan. Even then it still would be a conflict of interest to use USPA offices and personnel to be handling reservations and the such when some of the paying membership makes money doing demos. The USPA has done nothing but give themselves a black eye with this and it's time to let a lawyer or two dot the other for them so they will have a matching set.

Don't forget the $10,000 loan made by the USPA using our dues so he can go to ICAS and promote his, uh I mean the USPA team. To be honest I think it's time for some attorneys to get involved. The USPA won't listen and they just used 10k of our dues to put this ball of mess in motion. 10k that will be repaid, yeah right and I'm Santa Claus. The USPA is no longer an organization for the masses. It no longer represents the individual skydiver. Matter of fact it hasn't in a very long time. DZOs and / or their representatives should not be allowed on the BOD. It's a conflict of interest that we have lived with long enough. It's time for a major re working of the USPA as a whole. First needs to go is Hayhurst, then the DZOs and anyone else who is involved in or supports this demo team idea.

I just read the blog -The United States Parachute Team Sponsor Developmental Program By James Hayhurst http://skydiveuspa.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/team-sponsor-dev-program/ Here are some excerpts from that blog and my thoughts. Some members expressed concern about the $10,000 loan USPA authorized to jumpstart this program. Keep in mind that USPA routinely invests in new ideas and seeds special projects that show promise of enhancing the sport. The loan was made in order to market the team at the International Council of Air Shows (ICAS) Convention this December to solicit air show interest. The first $10,000 earned (after show expenses) by the team in 2012 will go back to repay the loan. The USPA routinely invests and seeds? Thought this was a loan, how often does the USPA do that? So the loan is to go to ICAS to promote this team. So where is all the gear that will be needed come from? Who's paying for that? And 2 paragraphs above that remark is this: If the U.S. Team is invited to do a show, we will reach out and ask local demo teams and jumpers to perform with the U.S. Team. If it’s a paid show, they will earn their standard fees (members of the U.S. Team will only be reimbursed travel and per diem). If all we do is break even, we’ve met our primary goal—presenting the U.S. Team to the public in order to attract sponsorship. If all you do is break even how is the loan going to be repaid? One concern the board had when considering this program was that it might be perceived as a move to take demos away from PRO-rated members. On that issue, it’s important to know there are hundreds of airshows and events each year and we don’t foresee the U.S. Parachute Team doing more than a dozen—so chances are unlikely. However, we can’t guarantee an airshow or event organizer might invite the U.S. Team to do a show that some other skydiving team has done before. No show team ever “owns” rights to an event; the desire for “fresh acts” is part of the airshow business, whether the U.S. Team is involved or not. So you're only going to do a dozen or so. How long will it take to pay the 10 grand at that rate. Longer than you think. And if you do get a show that was normally done by another USPA due paying member and it ends up that they lose out, then the cost of their membership just went up the price of dues plus the money they just lost out on to this Demo team because of the USPA. As Executive Director Ed Scott pointed out to the board, no one knows if this will work. Of course it's not going to work, enjoy the 10,000 dollar trip to ICAS. I hope you're going Ed, I'd hate for James to have all the fun just because he came up with a lame brained way to go to ICAS and spend 10k that's not his.

I love hi pulls so hang gliding was just another way of getting some "flying" time. I got a groupon for LMFP last Christmas and using it went off with out a hitch. Then LMFP gave me a coupon for $249 off any package they offer. So I chose the Mountain Package for my next endeavor. Beginner Ground School 50 training hill flights Mountain Ground School 3 supervised 1340' mountain solo flights Really looking forward to the solo flights.

That's hilarious

no I don't. I just posted the link for this missing person site and then someone posted anonymously right after on that site and I don't know who that is.

Thank you for sharing that. I'm an avid videographer too and you just don't see anything in Super 8 anymore. It's blows HD away when it comes to that raw as it gets feeling. That was awesome.

Yeah that one is kind of important. I couldn't tell you how many hang checks they made me do last Friday, quite a few during the day. Glad the guy in the video was okay. Looked like he suffered a bruised ego more than anything.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. LMFP is where I did my flight at this past Friday. But no I haven't heard about the accident. I know hang gliding is inherently dangerous. There's a lot that can go wrong. So the one thing I have not researched about it is accidents and fatalities. I wanted to go do it first and then decide if I want to continue which will include me doing more research. I did the same in skydiving. I did an AFF LVL 1, then ran home and did my research. 2 weeks later I was back in the air. Since then I have lost several friends in skydiving. I guess that's the one thing research can't prepare you for.

The best part for me was actually having someone to talk to in the air. I've never done a tandem skydive, went straight AFF. So I've never experienced getting to talk to someone while under a canopy or in this case a wing before. I thought that was pretty cool. The launch ramp on Lookout Mtn is about 1300' up and I want to get enough experience to go off of it. But I will admit standing on it was pretty intimidating to say the least.

So who has gone hang gliding before? What did you think about it? I made 3 practice launches on flat ground. Then the hang glider was put on a stand so I could hang in the harness and learn control movements. After that I did 5 launches off of a small hill, then I did a tandem that got towed to 4000' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCm6ubRlCPc The 5 launches off a small hill were a little intimidating. I knew enough to know I could break bones if I messed up. The tow to 4000' wasn't really a big deal. I've been towed in a glider before. But I'm not too thrilled about being towed and being at the mercy of the aircraft towing you either. At least I wasn't in a glider, This tow wasn't bad at all. The flight was peaceful, the landing as soft as any I have ever had under canopy or in a plane. It was definitely a different experience and I plan on going back for more. But I'm not putting my rig up for sale just yet

I watched both videos. And after reading the posts on here I really don't see what the big deal is. The guy made his first skydive, albeit one of the ugliest AFF LVL 1s I've seen, he still did something that only most dream about. 98% of the general population that saw this probably didn't even notice the 40k remark. He's already mentioned skydiving so they're automatically thinking death thanks to the media and the perception they have of skydiving in general. I did get a kick out of the "straight from skydiving into church" remark. But I have to agree, being in the sky, high above the earth, can show oneself just how insignificant they are in the big scheme of things. As much as we complain about the media and the way they portray skydiving, we should be grateful that someone in the media actually portrayed skydiving as colorful as he did instead of the usual it's unsafe, you could get killed crap. Yeah and I can get killed by one of the idiots that are constantly pulling out in front of me at the red light down the street from my house. Matter of fact the odds are probably in their favor.

Ran across this 9/11 formation skydive on CNN. Video: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-673211 Pics: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-673024

http://missingpersonsblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/dave-brown-missing-skydiving-instructor.html