rynodigsmusic

Wrong. The only thing fear is 'meant' to do is keep you alive. It is entirely a learned behavior. I replied to this one but I am responding to both of you. First Im not here to change your mind, just to express what I know about something just as you all. I dont claim to know anything about Quantum anything, or Evolutionalism, but if you go back and read all my responses, you will get a very strong insight into how I think and what I know. If youve done that already, then cool, and we can continue to talk some more, but only if your interested. First my comment on the Quantum and Evolutionsit thing not being based on fact was cut off, I said... "Quantam Physics and Evolutionists have been trying to prove the miracle of life for centuries, none of thier findings is based on fact. Only tiny factual evidence leading up to a theory that is far from proven. People either look at life as a miracle, or they dont, either way the mystery of both views is just as intriguing, and as i said earlier, both views serve a purpose." I never said it didnt have factual evidence, just that it is far from proven. It seems to me that just becasue you find fragments of something, doesnt mean that you found anything, but fragments. All their findings is still only streching to support a theory. So the direction they are going, though intriguiging I am sure, is still based on theory. Is this not the case? Or have you discovered something that scientists have been searching for forever? And let me ask another question. What will change in the battle of good and evil if you did find "the answer"? And if you find the answer, what then? Will you be able to go into the grave and revive your child who died some time ago? Will your magical life-giving wand be in the hands of the poor as well as the rich? You all are always looking for logic, your not looking for logic, your looking for truth, we all are. But you dont go into other places to find it. The truth is found in the spirit of forgiveness, mercy, and love, only repentance will send you what you seek. You talk about the power of mind, but ignore the power of the heart. You use wisdom born of man to rest all your hopes upon, instead of giving an ear to even the slightest possibility that wisdom was here before man. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all, but I wont be able to till tomorrow. Beowulf and I have been talking for awhile, I hope you read some of the replys so that you might know that my true intent is not to harm, or frustrate, but it is out of care and respect that I respond to you all. And dont kid yourselves, this is not my first engagement with people who hate God, and dislike Christians, so please feel free to vent, be angry...you know speak from your heart. "We didn't start the fire"

Just because you found inspiration in the Bible doesn't make it true or factual. Forgive me for saying, but what makes your theory true or factual? Quantam Physics and Evolutionists have been trying to prove the miracle of life for centuries, none of thier findings is based on fact. Only tiny factual evidence leading up to a theory that is far from proven. People either look at life as a miracle, or they dont, either way the mystery of both views is just as intriguing, and as i said earlier, both views serve a purpose. I have seen many dead bodies as I am sure you have as well. The body is there, the heart, the blood, but something is missing, something powerful, something sacred, something miraculous, something that even the greatest minds in science cant find. I am sorry, but I just cant believe that something so vast and brilliant in our world, on our earth such as life, is just born from pieces of carbon fiber in the universe and has absolutley no purpose whatsoever. I personally cannot deny that there is actual wisdom operating under an invisible blanket of space, with purpose, design and influence. We humans must really think alot of ourselves, and where has that pride ever gotten us? "We didn't start the fire"

Everyone feels fear at times. It's how you deal with it that is important. I don't resort to fantasys based on the Bible. Your right, its how you deal with it. But have you never feared the possibility of hell? Fear is shown to us so that we might know what fear is. It is meant to humble us, but also to bring us hope which is greater than control. Hope gives the outcome of your life to something else, or we choose to bare the burden of that outcome within ourselves. Fear does not get erased just because we feel we have control, it has a great purpose in our lives and ultimately it is overcome with power a power that is greater. Fear is also an inspiration beyond just being afraid. It will paralyze people, haunt them, control them and it cannot be controled by our minds, it goes much deeper than that. It is power given to wisdom to bring us hope, so that the greater powers in wisdom can overcome it and find true peace. "We didn't start the fire"

I have read the Bible. You can believe anything you want. That doesn't make it true. Everyone feels fear at times. It's how you deal with it that is important. I don't resort to fantasys based on the Bible. Well your further along than I am then cause I havent read the entire bible even yet. But I asked if you had read a Gospel, which is the small 4 books that were the accounts of Jesus. He only lived around 30 years or so and he only had 3 years of ministry. A Gospel is either Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. The entire bible is 66 books, and it is an absolute miracle to me that everything fits together the way it does with all the years in between each book. I mean Isaiah prophesied some 800 years before Christ that he was going to come. And you can go all the way back to genesis and exudus to find evidence of the prophecy of Jesus. Thats not somewhat fascinating? There are theologists all over the world who dont even believe in Jesus, but have a super fascination of the bible and the way it connects. If you want to know the truth about yourself confront yourself in full truth, what you find is only a hair of what God knows about you. He even knows if you will seek him some day, truth knows all your secrets. Let me say, I hope these conversations arent over, I just want you to know that i appreciate your confrontations more than you know. I mean that. Like I said, at least your not a self-righteous hypocrite. It is a rare thing to be able to share your faith with someone and I appreciate everything you write. "We didn't start the fire"

MLK wrote and delivered an emotional speech that inspired many people. So what is your point?? Hope is an emotion, look it up. Faith is believing in something with out any evidence, look it up. Try dictionary.com Many people find the bible to be emotionally inspiring. That doesn't make it any more valid. MY POINT IS THAT HE INSPIRED! INSPIRATION BREEDS FEELING AND FEELING BREEDS THOUGHT AND THOUGHT, ACTION. THERE IS SOMETHING BEFORE THE EMOTION, BEFORE THE FEELING. THIS IS WHAT THOSE INSPIRED BY THE SPIRIT OF JESUS HAVE. The spirit of Grace (Gods love) is what Jesus was inspired by, that is why he died and gave his life, so that we would know it. You said that MLK inspired people through his speeches, but most of that power came through his convictioin (how much he believed), that conviction was given to the world in his death and therefore his message lives and continues to inspire with power. Jesus is the no different, except the spirit he released was the willingness for everyone to love one another and turn from their evil ways. If hope is just an emotion, then what is inspiration? Isnt an emotion just a response to something? What is it responding to? What does anything or anyone respond to? Now, keep in mind, reason just told you that MLK inspired people, so I am close to believing that your really not listening to reason, which means your definitly not gonna listen to me. Youve already made up your mind what I am to you and what my intent is. Unfortunately, I cant do anything about that. "We didn't start the fire"

No I am not telling you that. I am saying there is no evidence of any life after death. It's not about what i want to believe. It's about the evidence available. but what if I told you that what you want to believe is what you can believe? Would you still not believe you can becasue you dont have the evidence. And have you even read a gospel? "We didn't start the fire"

which is it? earlier you said you are not relying on blind faith. There is nothing wrong with leading that life. It's just as good as leading a life of skydiving every weekend, if that person enjoys their life who am I to question their choices. Not everyone wants to be a skydiver. Ok. I said that our faith is not blind, that it is founded on love, faith is blind, but what you have faith in is what is seen. I am also guessing the dictionary.com has the definition for love just wrapped up in one little perfect definition as well right? Even though there are thousands of movies, songs, peices of art to express that very thing. How is dictionary.com going to define faith, hope, or love? What it defines is mans definition of it, not mans experience or testimony of it. The bible defines faith through the heart of those who lived it, and are you telling me that you believe the bible is worth comparing to the dictionary? How many people you know give their lives, time, money, effort in support of the dictionary? Im sorry, I cant make that connection. Then you said earlier that the bible is vague on authorship, even though it has been written in for thousands of years, the dictionary is your guide?? wow. I wonder if the definition for skydiving can define how you feel about it? Yeah the less ridiculous comment wasnt finished But what I was trying to say is that man wasnt created to just pay bills and work. theres more to life than that. You can witness the power of the simpler life in more humble envioronments. All I was saying about skydiving was that it generally attracts people who wanted something more out of life, challenge, or just more beauty, I dont know. If you have never been to third world countrys or tribal envioronments then you wouldnt really have the perception that is bred by someone who has, so either you believe there is more to life than what our society shows, or you dont, there is not a right or a wrong, that answer is just found from within. Your comment on fear sort of suprises me. We both have admitted that we fear, yet only my fear aparently is based on a fantasy, yours is reality? Your gonna need to explain that one to me. "We didn't start the fire"

I believe you faith is missplaced. I think your faith is blind. You are blinded by your emotions. You want to believe so much that you cannot see how ridiculus the bibles claims are. I think this is fueled by fear. Probably fear of death. You don't want to believe that life just ends and there is nothing after death. OF COURSE I DONT WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NOTHING AFTER DEATH, BECAUSE I LIVE BY THE TRUTH!!!!! Are you telling me that you want to believe that there is nothing after death? And you are very right, faith is most definitely fueled by fear, so is not turning away from sin becasue you think you will not live as good a life. You cant find hope in God, true hope, without a fear of him. Truth doesnt deny that. And faith IS blind, but what you have faith in is seen very clearly. The bible describes faith as "being sure of what you hope for, and certain of what you cannot see" And what is less ridiculous, to believe we are here to go to college, make as much money as possible, have a family, retire, and die? Yet that is the mind set of our entire culture and society. At least among skydivers you find those with a zest for life who coincedentally are much closer to God than you think, even if they think they are not. So now we have a moment of truth. Time for you to defend your entire credibility. Do you fear? "We didn't start the fire"

All you have to support this statement is the bible. That is not proof of anything. Your right, we dont have proof, and you know thats why we have faith. But our faith is not blind my freind it is founded on love, a deeper love than I have ever found. I promise you that I would not have believed if I had not found this love, becasue though faith may be blind, love is real and powerful, even, undeniable. Jesus said more than anything it seems that we had so little faith, so even God knows how little faith we have, but faith that is genuine will grow, just as love that is genuine will last. But without faith the only proof we have is that 12 men 2000 years ago spent time with Jesus, learned from him, saw him crucified, and through their witness and testimony, saw him resurrected from the dead. Christianity is only alive becasue of thier testimony. But it wasnt just their testimony, they had something else, the spirit. That spirit is still alive today and to this day brings people love in increasing measures. Try to think about what spirit is and you may see how it influences. But to continue, these 12 men were most of them martryd, persecuted, hated, poor, "like refuse" on the street. Basically my friend they were bumbs, only with the conviction and power of what they have witnessed, not just the resurrection, but what they were witnessing throughout the rest of their lives, living not only on food and water, but on the insight and revelations of the spirit that Jesus released when he was crucified. Jesus died so that we might have not just love, but the love of God, which goes much much deeper. This spirit he released is called the Holy Spirit. Jesus told us that God is spirit and not only that he is spirit but that his spirits glory, the greatest of his being, is love. Everyone who believes in God believes that he created all that exists in space and time, therefore everything was created good and in his spirit. That is why we feel "connceted" with beauty, because the very spirit that is beauty created us. So mountains, Sky, Oceans, ect, are all made in his spirit, all life, but what he did with us was something so magnificent. He created us in his very image so that we might reveal the glory in his spirit, love. Nature only shows some of his beauty, but even nature cannot be born of his glory. Because God is spirit then we commune with him in spirit. Goodness, Faith, Hope, and Love. Contrary to the popular atheist belief, we believe when you are hoping for something you are hoping in spirit, when you love something or someone, it is spirit as well and both as you know feel good to our hearts. Jesus tells us not to love anything more than God or to put your hope in anything else, becasue these things are quickly dissapearing, here one day, gone the next, but someone putting their hope in God and finding love in him finds it for the rest of their lives and not only that, but finds it in increasing measures the more the secrets are revealled. I cant show you this, although I wish I could, you have to be born of this spirit to see it. No one comes to God without truth, and it shouldnt be too hard to recognize the faults and weaknesses in our own life. You cannot be truthful enough with God he made you and he knows you better than you know yourself. What I find interesting though is why would he even bother to reveal himself to us? Even if you hate him, he loves you, even if you dont believe, he shows you grace, even if you deny him time after time, and spit in his face, he still keeps his heart open, waiting, for you to learn. Jesus came to seek and save what was lost. Our proof is in the spirit he released and the testimony that is bred from our lives. Unfortunately our testimony has not power for those who do not believe, with proof or without proof. Many many people in the Gospel saw the miracles themselves, but still didnt believe who he was. It is the ones who didnt see and yet still believed that were called blessed, because they didnt have to see with their eyes, they saw with their hearts. Again, sorry I wrote so much "We didn't start the fire"

All you have to support this statement is the bible. That is not proof of anything. I enjoy many things in life. I don't need to imagine an after life in order to feel good about life. See, now we are talking. I am very very glad that you are happy and that you enjoy many things in this life, I hope you enjoy everything truly. I am not against enjoying life, nor do I think any Christian is. Everyone has their own path, you are following your heart which truly my friend that is all we can do. I followed my heart and it led me to Jesus, but not before it took me all sorts of other places! Some wont ever be led to the Gospel, but all will follow thier own paths. I am only a guide for those who seek to follow the path of Jesus, I can bring no one, because those who come to Jesus are called, the heart desires what the heart desires. Consider me a really good freind here whenever and whereever you need one, nothing more. I may have some insight that you may benefit from, and trust me I am listening for insight from everyone I meet, even children. Wisdom truly is everywhere. Something I struggle with is this "warrior of God" mentality in the world today. Anyone who truly believes in God knows that he judges us by our own hearts, I dont know about these "warriors", but with me I dont feel like even I deserve Heaven, so going around telling everyone I am a "warrior for God" just doesnt seem right to me. If I am a warrior, I will practice humility, humbleness, gentleness, truth, forgiveness and being merciful. To me, these are the hardest things to find at times. Not to change the subject entirely, but what do you think? "We didn't start the fire"

This is typical Christian bullshit if someone doesn't imagine the same thing you do then it's because you can't "hear this word" or Jesus hasn't shown you the "way". Why are you so bitter against us? Have you been hurt by a follower of Christ? Have they spoken badly against you? Are we hateful and careless with our words? Your bitterness can easily turn to anger or even rage and believe it or not has nothing to do with Christians and everything to do with what is in you. If you dont believe, why are you so bitter? I mean what did you expect? You fall in with "an atheist speaks" thread on an open and public forum fully voicing your own opinions and beliefs and angry that someone else doesnt see it your way. So you have become the one on the offensive and mad the very thing you are arguing with me about. In a sense my freind you are arguing with yourself, and using Christians to take your frustration out on. Why not just take what you hear with a grain of salt, unless maybe you are on the side of truth more than you think? I am truly sorry that I am the one sparking your anger, but i am only expressing my heart, dont you understand, I cant go against what I believe to be right, no one can if they live by the truth. "We didn't start the fire"

Thanks for the link. He says it much more eloquently than I've been able to. Why is it easier to believe in a man who doesnt believe in God? Wouldnt you want to be someone who has the hope of eternal life? I mean to believe this life is it, goes against what you truly hope for on the inside doesnt it? Or do you hope that this is the only life? And if so, why? So many of you want to believe in life after death, Jesus proved it by being ressurected from the dead and ascending to heaven. Now that we have the proof, you would rather deny it? It seems all our lives we have been waiting to truly believe in life after death, he shows us the way and we still dont believe. Now I am asking a question to all atheist and seekers, I hope you respond with truthfulness, where is the joy in your life if not in hope? And Penn Jillette says that he loves his family, I would certainly hope so, but what will he do if he loses them? He says he has truth but doesnt believe even in possibility. There is more truth in a man who believes in possibility than a man who is certain that something only seen by faith is not real. I mean even evil believes in good right? Evil doesnt say, good does not exist, it just goes against it. I need some answers here from the truth that is in you, speak from your heart, think a little bit, and dont be afraid to fear God, "it is the fear of God that is the beginning of wisdom" "We didn't start the fire"

So what? Yes you feel emotions, but those emotions are generated by you. There is no independant power out there called love, or desire, or hope, just as there is no actual independant power called God. people follow thier feelings and we are led by emotions, this is how the world flows. This wasnt some systematic design flaw in mankind, it is how we experience life. Some feelings lead to evil, others to good. Some lead to enlightenment, some lead to the death of the soul. Until you feel pain beyond that which is seen, you may never acknowledge even the possiblity of a healing beyond that which is seen. Ask yourself, dont listen to me, do you think that you have a soul? An inner being, something deeper than even your mind? There is life beyond being alive, and there is death beyond dying, I truly hope you follow your heart into life, because I myself have felt the death, its real pain, and a cut in the soul is harder to see than a cut on the flesh. I of course thought the same way you did, but Jesus opened my eyes. The reason you cant see what I see is because your eyes are still closed, (I say that with compassion). If you get tired of searching, find something; if its not what you were looking for, search some more; if you still cant find, then you may be lost, and if you are lost, then you can be found. "We didn't start the fire"

"Not everyone can hear this word, only those to whom it has been given" Go in peace "We didn't start the fire"

Thats too bad. I read most of the article and I am sure there are things like this happening all over. After 911 I think we saw Amercia and much of the world for that matter sort of re examine what they believe. Its a shame that they treated this guy differently, I dont recall Jesus treating those who hated him any differently, he just spoke the wisdom he had and that was enough for him to take the cross. He didnt condemn or judge anyone, in fact all he did was question their faith, not necessarily how they lived as much as how they treated one another, especially those outside of their faith. What happened to that man is the same thing that happened to Jesus, they rejected him and therefore, I think they missed the spirit of grace altogether. Grace is given BECAUSE of our faults and our sins, the problem with people who dont live by truth is that they think they themselves do not have sin, or dont sin ect... They failed to show the atheist grace, the very thing that was shown to them. A true Christian will speak the truth about himself, about his faults, about his sin, about his shortcomings not only to God but to others as well. Hypocrisy is a problem amongst people in general, but truth will expose the hypocrite eventually, and besides, God knows mans hearts, you cannot be truthful enough to him. The only way that grace has power in our hearts is by acknowledging the truth, that we have ALL sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Now what I have said might raise a flag in many Christians' lives, but I submit that those who do not believe that may not have the truth revealed to them as well. Generally it is the atheist that take well to these words and of course truth speaking Christians who do not hide their weaknesses. It is the self righteous and hypocritical ones that are the most dangerous, as they have forgotten how to see their very own faults and in doing so have fallen further away from the power of grace. A humble and pure heart which acknowledges truth within will find the power in grace if they believe that Jesus came to save us from the lie. And truth has shown that this revelation and cleansing of the heart reveals a spirit of life through love that not only feels incredibly powerful but that keeps us on the path of goodness (which is righteousness). No one on the path of righteousness should lash out or condemn someone else for not finding the same path, it is not a burden, its a reward. What I feel is deep compassion for those who still cant see. I would never, nor would any true christian, oppress someone into the path of righteousness. One has to desire righteousness because they want it otherwise the path is fruitless. The path is so much more than a desire to be sinless, which only Jesus was. It is to fill the heart with peace, understanding, hope, joy, comfort, beauty, pleasure, and so many other gifts that come with walking the path. Grace, Truth, and Perseverance is the only way. Without someone seeing from within themselves, it cannot be found through oppression, my goodness, I am sort of shocked at this actually. The goal of faith my freinds is obvious. No one is trying to hide it and if they are living it, they wont have to hide it or even want to, its a gift, its a gift. The goal of faith is comfort, peace, understanding, hope, joy for this life, for this life, for this life, that is the goal and it is sought after until the very end of ones earthly life. You recieve power through insight, insight that rocks you right down to your very inner being and this insight brings you life to the fullest. Again, it is not a burden, it is a gift for those who desire truth. All those who desire truth will see their own evil and turn away from it, not because they feel like they have to, but because they want to. Oh so much to say... Let me apologize to everyone for anyone who has come to you in the name of Jesus but has not shown you his spirit. We humbly speak the truth, especially if it is humiliating, becasue we know that the truth will free us through the grace given in Jesus. True Christians merely recognize their own evil, and darkness and desire to become more good. God gave us the forgiveness we needed to start our path of goodness, and this spirit of forgiveness is grace, mercy, and truth, to keep us on the right path by reminding us moment to moment it seems that good just feels better, lighter, easier. The path of course may not be easier at times, but the rewards found along the way sustain us. When we talk to non-believers we are only trying to share what is sacred, pure, and powerful in our own hearts. Its like when you talk to people about skydiving, some get it, some dont, but you still talk passionately about it when you feel the desire to share it with someone. The same is true about other peoples children, really no one cares right (usually anyway) but we speak about our children with deep conviction.. The spirit of the hypocrite operates in a lie he cannot see, or chooses not to see, in the attempt to empower his own ego. These are the people Jesus spoke against, not gentile atheists who havent heard his message. If Jesus were talking to you in these forums and you knew he was Jesus, I believe most of you would fall in love with him immediately. But as it is, you all speak against something you dont understand, you speak agains the greatest love, but, it is not truth keeping you from understanding, or maybe it is, but mostly it is seeing others walking and talking in the name of Jesus, who arent actually following his footsteps. You will know if someone is following in his footsteps or not by one very important quality of the spirit, Love. Again, sorry I wrote so much, but this is sort of important to me, at least that you understand what grace is and what Jesus stands for. "We didn't start the fire"

Thank you brother, but I must continue to say that this is the wisdom of Jesus, not me, so that others may have a chance to believe that thoughts are inspired and therefore, though we recieve them, they are not from us. They were born from the very beginning to lead us back to the very beginning. Since Love is the glory of wisdom, then it takes love to find wisdom. No one finds wisdom without love. Love is the greatest! I promise everyone, if they seek the love in Jesus, they will find the love that is from the very beginning bursting with power and light, and a heart that is full of love is a heart that is full of the life! Try not to let fear keep you from the light. Thank you for your comment and your heart. "We didn't start the fire"

Processes that underly all physiological 'life' on Earth -- from viruses to trees to mammals -- occur because carbon is small and multi-valent. Are you trying to build a teleological argument? If you are sincerely interested in understanding evolutionary theory, I would suggest a fantastic resource, which was partially funded by your tax dollars through an independent agency created by President Lincoln: the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) and the Institute of Medicine (IOM) updated booklet "Science, Evolution, and Creationism" released in January. You may find particularly interesting Chapter 3 & some of the other sidebars (e.g., pp. 13-15) that includes comments by Pope John Paul II, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, the Presbyterian General Assembly, and the Clergy Letter Project disputing the assertion that evolution is inherently in conflict with religious belief. I’m hearteded to see that minister at my church has signed. VR/Marg It seems you have found a strong desire to pursue the theory of evolution which doesnt take faith right? And it seems that I have found a strong desire for Jesus which does take faith right? You seem to be a polite and humble person, so that means you are a person who is able to reason. So lets reason together. You are right, I do not know anything about evolutional theory. Its just that I cant get past its lack of power or purpose, it doesnt really help anyone in my eyes, but again we already know that we disagree with one another...The prophecy of the bible is that God everything so that he could actually harvest the beautiful spirit of man (adam and eve before the fall) for a life of eternity right here on earth, in which everyone lives in pure bliss amongst one another. Jesus said that Heaven is found within us and the bible says that there will be a new heaven and a new earth. So, whether God is speaking of this earth or something new I dont know, but he said that we will find a new Heaven as well. If many bhuddist and many Christians have found enlightenment here in the body that has fallen (bhuddist and christians view sin as negative, and both talk about it as being interrupting to th pure lifeforce of man, so it isnt just christianity that talks about the fallen man being evil in nature), then it should be our testimony that proves the better things in life are found from within, and it should be our testimony that gives power to the wonder of what this new Heaven is going to feel like. (we may not agree with how one another found this enlightenment, but we agreee in the power of it right?) Our home, this Heaven we all seek, the beginning of our innocence, a complete overload of the enlightenment we found, anything beyond that of man, to where I am willing to die for you and you are willing to die for me, love in its deepest, more purest form. This is the prophecy of the bible, that all those born into this spirit are already apart of and are just waiting for. Many bhuddist claim to have found this purest of enlightenments, but I feel the depth of the heart is so grand that it goes into eternity to seek its desires, (sort of like you all, doesnt the brain only use a very small portion of its power? I really dont know), but anyway, Prophecy is different from theory in that theorys have not been proven, prophecys are already proven and are already true, if it is a true prophecy. This is the fundamental difference between those who find faith, and those who do not. We agree with this so far right? I understand that you dont know what I wrote about what Jesus says and thats ok, I dont know about evolutional theory either, so at least we have common ground. So, I have faith, you have science right? I have prophecy and you have theory, I have spirit and you have fluids, brainwaves, and matter, believe it or not we both have purpose as everything is connected in some way, in some way we are all connected, and I believe that connection is wisdom. When Jesus was sitting with the "sinners" they asked why are you sitting with the sinners, eating and drinking? And Jesus said that wisdom is proven right by all her children" The very wisdom that made the earth perfectly self sustaining (try not to attach wisdom to a person or being in your mind and just think of wisdom as its own for a moment) But if you agree that we all have purpose, then you agree that we all have influence, some greater than others. Our lives, even if very fast and insignificant, like a baby dying at birth, can breed a ton of wisdom to the world, so even a brief life has an influence of some sort. So how is it that us, being human beings have so much purpose if all we are is remnants from a carbon based life force just forging around in this sea of time bumping our insignificant heads against all four walls in a room? Wouldnt wisdom have something to do with even that? I mean, everything that the "wisdom" in the theory of evolution goes against is the nature of wisdom itself, it goes against any idea of their being wisdom before the explosion of mankinds theoretical mind. Just seems ironic to me, but Jesus did say that "unless you enter the Kingdom of Heaven as a little child, you will certainly not enter it" and again he said, "Praise you Father, for you have hidden the secrets from the wise and the learned and revealed them to the little children, yes this was your good pleasure" And why would a man ever long to live a life like Jesus did to the point of crucifixion so that we might live a more simpler, more peace loving life? We do agree that whether the world thinks Jesus was just out of his mind, or whether he truly was inspired by something greater than man (perhaps a wisdom that was before man?), (even greater than carbon) that the man had a level of love so full and so overflowing that he wanted us to have it so badly that he sacraficed himself so that we would? Fulfiling the prophecys spoken about him thousands of years ago and giving life in Heaven (in the heart) to those who believed, by cleansing them of the guilt they carry caused by sin and freeing them from its condmnation. Now you will say that it was just him desiring to fulfill the prophesys because he knew they were already written (self fulfilling prophesy), but by what inspiration or by what desire was he operating in if that is the case? Reason at least tells us that purpose has purpose and that it is more than possible that wisdom was here before you or I. Evolution does not prove that there is no wisdom in the universe. And anyone who agrees with wisdom being in the universe is in danger of believing that God is real and that His wisdom was not only set to frustrate man so that they might seek the peace in submission, but also set to make man thrive in its glory. The glory of wisdom is LOVE. Love is the most powerful, most desired, most uniquely creative force, without it, we have nothing. Love can defeat anything, but it has one condition. It must be believed to be recieved. If you never believe you are loved, then that love cannot enter your heart and show you all the love it truly has. Which if anyone knows anything about love, its powers are endless, way beyond caring about your own life even. I am sorry I wrote so much. "We didn't start the fire"

my cat's breath smells like cat food!! this is too funny! Im with you on this one Pbwing...what?@!!! Sounds like code to me

Yours may not have, but your bretheren have killed millions in the name of the same superstition. It's bullshit. It always has been, and always will be. If you want to look for a god, look within yourself. If you believe in an all seeing god, then I'd like to sell you defense for unicorns that uses a bag of magical shreiking peanuts. I live my life by the pagan (or Wiccan) rede. It goes, and I quote.... "Be it harm none, do what thy wilt shalt be the whole law" One sentence. Beats the fuck out of every other religious text ever written IMHO. "Be it harm none, do what thy wilt" that is what the satanic bible is based on completely. Its moral and rebellious at the same time, making it as deceptive as it is attractive, just be careful these two combined invite a wealth of demonic power, which is much more deceptive than you can even imagine. Those who do the absolute worst damage to others are those who believe they dont do any. And tell me, where does this rebellion stop? Who has the power? This type of thinking leads to one world domination, the very thing Jesus told us about 2000 yrs ago was going to come about before the end of the world. And by the way, my bretheren never killed anyone, the killers were all imposters acting in Jesus' name but not living according to the spirit. All those who lived by the spirit were persucuted and ultimately martryd, they did not kill. And many more wars have been started by man acting in the name of man than in the name of God. Under communist, faccist, and totalitarian regimes or global domination. So what you have allowed to be your guide in the spirit not only is proven dangerous by history, but actually shows that your morals rest more firmly on Christianity than you think. But, there is no reason to take offense to any of this if you truly dont believe it. the spirit is meant to set us free, not to enslave us. "We didn't start the fire"

Ok, I think I may see our difference. You believe that feelings are merely feelings and have little to know inspiration attached to them, correct? Yet both of us can agree that love feels good right, (if you dont have it, you mourn it, which means it felt good to you when you had it, so lets stay on track) so is love or goodness the feeling? And if goodness is the feeling of love, then what is love? Faith is a genuine gift, it is not something you can find in this way. Nothing I say (as was said earlier) will give it to you, it is a gift given by the creator of our souls for repentance. It is the only way to salvation and if you want it someday, just knock and ask. Of course everything is based on my feelings, but my feelings were inspired by the Gospel. God wants us to experience him with everything we have, our feelings, our minds, everything, this is a gift my freind, not a burden. He wants us to feel him in everything so much that he actually designed us to starve for him. It is clear that you havent starved yet, or maybe you have? Feeling the spirit is unlike any feeling I have felt, it is very powerful. Repent and become born again, pray for the Holy Spirit and you too will feel this power, or are you afraid that it might feel too good? It is obvious that you may not ever see, that is a shame, but what is written usually is read by more than one person and the Gospel has a purpose, it saves, heals, loves and brings hope, it is Gods word and he is the one who scatters it and makes it fruitful. God bless freind, even if you dont believe

Are you talking about getting truth wrong? Surely we all can agree that there is only one universal truth right? Whether or not we believe in the same one doesnt mean that the truth changes right? All I am saying is that I believe Jesus to be the truth, nothing I say will ever come close to the things he said! So forgive me for saying but if you disagree with this stuff, you are really disagreeing with Jesus. All Jesus wanted everyone to do was take hold of life and love one another deeply from the heart. I cant imagine that is getting everything wrong. "We didn't start the fire"

Alright, in the spirit of freindship...It seems most of what you rebutte is due to what you have been taught on the imagination. So well talk a little about the imagination. Isnt the imagination what drove us to where we are today? So you and I both agree that imagination is very powerful right? So lets see if we can agree that imagination is fed on influence, inspiration, wonder, and possiblity? But, if you dont agree on that, then we disagree on what the imaginaiton is, I beleive the imagination is only as powerful as we allow it to be. Those who imagine with walls dont imagine much do they? Those who imagine without walls, imagine limitlessly and thiers is the power. Whether that power is used for good or evil, that is up to the influence or the inspiration??? Just a thought. 2nd. You are right in assuming that if I were born muslim I would be for muhammed right now, as it is a religion that works on opression, not truth. I am actually in the middle east right now actually

The problem with not relying on your intellect and senses is that it opens you up to being fooled and tricked. Anything else is arbitrary at best. Relying on feelings is very unreliable. You feel that there is a god and you faith in that feeling, but you don't actually know that there is a god. See, this is the part you guys are missing and this to me is the tragedy of the faithless. I do know there is a God, and the reason I do is because I have felt the power of the spirit and continue to be overwhelmed by it to this very day. Jesus says that faith starts out almost non-existant, but it grows into something marvelous and magnificent. We can debate God to all ends, but the truth is still there, the power of God is grace and if I could give you what is in me, you would believe too, but I cant, its not mine to give. It is a gift given through repentance for those who are tired of living a mediocre half-hearted life and who recognize the absolute reality of death and who allow themselves to fear openly. A heroin addict fears the truth, that he is an addict, but it is only the truth that will set him free. This is the path of a heroin addict, a little extreme, but just as true. Any addict, if you have ever been one, lives in complete and utter denial until the very thing he fears most sets him free. Of course not all at once, but Jesus didnt say that we could peer into our treasure from the beginning, he said, find it first, unlock it first, put your trust in me first and see for yourself where I take you and what I give you. So you see, Fear and Truth are in the same flow, so of course you cannot acknowledge the truth my friend, you dont have any Fear of God. But this is a great tragedy and this is what spiritual justice is all about and why I am risking everyone liking me to tell you about it so that you might think a little deeper and find the greatest of gifts as so many of us have. I have no choice as what is in me desires to be shared. I realize though that many are still in the search and for that I hope you never stop searching. And dont forget, you havent gone as far as you think, this goes for everyone, there is always grace for those who turn. I can say with full truth in the sight of God that I live a much fuller, much happier life now. Where as before all I felt was lonlieness, darkness and the world just sort of lost its glow you know? But now, I do live in the light and for once I am truly happy and I see things so much more beautifully now. But, thats just my testimony. Tell us something lovely about your life and focus your search there. I believe that everyone who follows their heart will find what the heart desires no matter where it leads you. So sorry about the length, I type sort of fast! "We didn't start the fire"

Thank you my friend, truly, but it should be known that my imagination is dangerous, you should have seen the way I used to think! I consider this imagination now as a gift of the Gospel, but again, thank you for you kind words, usually truth makes people angry. "We didn't start the fire"