4wayFly

Highly unlikely

Ummm...cost-benefit analysis all well and good. But Bedford is a 16 ft diameter tunnel. So you're comparing apples with oranges (or apricots with watermelons?!). Teams like to be able to train the whole dive pool in the tunnel hence the attraction to overseas teams. And as far as 'the best coaches in the world' goes...Airspeed boys and AZ locals Mark Kirkby and Gary Beyers are headed to the UK to coach 1-on1- and 4-way at Bedford June 7-12 anyway (Airspeed Odyssey just left). But we will miss you, Matt

Confront them with the facts of what you know (facts only) and tell them to stop.

Ok let me explain some more then, although I hasten to add I cannot tell you why...In Bedford my team and I all wear the same lead we wear in freefall i.e 2 people wear none at all. In the other SV tunnels I almost double my lead. The others on the team do not. I am the lightest on the team i.e at one end of the spectrum of fallrate. I genuinely feel I cannot fly in my normal way without adding more lead in SV - the difference between our individual fallrates as a team seem exaggerated in the SV tunnels. Bedford feels softer and more like freefall regardless of actual airspeed. Since the V effect (or lack of) seems to be the primary difference between how the Sv tunnels and Bedford work...I 'assumed' this was why. I assume it is ok to mention my personal experiences on here, Ron, since this is a discussion forum and not a court of law?

No. Feckin freeflyers. I knew that already!

This is really where my Venturi thing comes from (yes Ronnie dear I have flown a rig in the tunnel, quite a bit actually) - having flown most of the SV tunnels and Bedford...I feel more 'pressure' in the Venturi SV ones... F...knows why really...Assume the Venturi thing. In Bedford I wear the same lead as freefall, in Orlando/ Perris/ Airkix...with the same team..I double it. Go figure. Makes no sense to me but I am not a fluid dynamicist.

Why? Did you just pull that out your butt? Surely it depends on how fast you fall in the first place? I know plenty of skydivers who wear a lot MORE in the tunnel than in freefall. And the venturi effect (of some tunnels eg the SV ones) creates additional pressure within the chamber that does not exactly replicate freefall (not so in Bedford for example, no Venturi effect). So, many skydivers find that even if they jump with the same team in the tunnel that they jump with in the sky, the lightest person sometimes has to add extra lead in the tunnel. So ner Yes indeed. The input required is just about the speed you are travelling through the air and nothing to do with the tunnel or the sky.

Hey Nige, so I know you don't get the whole flat thing...but could you be so kind as to do the averages and competitor names for us on the site???? Pleeease :) You KNOW flat is the new free and all that...

How much are the 2 on 2 camps with Gary Bayer and Mark Kirkby at Bedford? I don't see anything on line anywhere. Same format I guess if they are both ex-Airspeed guys? Anyone got a link?

Could we get the averages posted for the 4way on the World Challenge website so we don't have to add it all up and divide it etc?

Maubeuge OPEN you mean... There is another 'Maubeuge' team out there already apparently (if the girls team is called by the same name?). So..... they could make a clean sweep between the two teams. Would be the first time I think?

Yeah...There's nothing better for 4way skills than 2 on 2 with top coaches... Oh. Other than maybe 3 on 1 with top coaches, as Natasha Montgomery could attest . 4 years in the sport (I think?) and US National Champion. Amazing. If only money was no object. Edited to add: Nice point about the golf thing BTW.

I agree v important, you get to focus more while you are away. Plus of course the canopy stuff - all important parts of a training schdedule. So we get that covered with a couple of weekends in Spain, a bad ass 4way tunnel camp in the UK, money saved by all, boss is happy, Uk skydiving gets better by the month. UK Nationals is gonna go off this year, especially with camps like this so close to the date as a little 'refresher'..or even the main part of training. Very cool. Expect the standards to skyrocket in the UK, there is no excuse not to now.

Sorry dude, it's a poll about tunnel popularity..hence has people's opinions in it...

Oh dear just a thought but are you TROLLING? Oh no...suckered.

Er...dude...YOU haven't BEEN to Bedford. Does your last comment therefore not apply to you? You do sound a bit hot and bothered though. Maybe a nice cup of tea would help?

May be so...but there's still something about breaking the 20 barrier, even if it's a fast draw. Wasn't so long ago that the 20 was skydiving's 4-minute mile...Now everyone's at it! I think the experience level on the new Norwegian team is also fairly low (in terms of World Level)...but I may be wrong. Either way it was great to see. Out of interest Ron, how fast (relatively) do you think the draw was when Majik did their 23? I don't remember.

Perhaps, as you suggested, 'time has told'....

They looked very strong at the Shamrock Showdown, with the addition of Pete Allum. Arcteryx from Norway also had a great meet, breaking a 20 the first time for this new team - amazing stuff given they were only doing a 15 - 16 average 2 years ago. Big congrats to both teams..and of course to Fire for their World Record. Looks like there was something in it for everyone :) It's going to be an exciting World Meet...

See your point...but you haven't actually flown in Bedford. I would have to agree with Paul (yes it is just an opinion I suppose, but it's what I've seen) that people seem to hurt and funnel themselves very little because of the huge huge space in Bedford. The walls are so far away......seems impossible to hit them! It is a lot bigger than Eloy, really, 2ft goes further than you might think. It is a great design. Whether people are happy with 12ft when 16 is up the road is another matter. Er...you only mentioned the advantages of the smaller tunnel, and the disadvantages of the larger one. Apologies for taking that to mean you thought small was better

Even so, they are starting a solid point average+ behind a very well established team...So unless they are somehow able to train a lot more it would seem the French girls are odds-on.

Well...Bedford is also a recirculator as well...but it's 16ft diameter. I really don't get the 'small is better' arguments...but then I suppose there are those who prefer Cessnas to Twin Otters too...

Not really rocket science now Synchronicity are out

Nothing quite like pissing on someone's Fire, is there? (geddit? )