CrazyAl

Pfffft

Fun! What should I do with the unserviceable (type 1 with damaged plastic insert) Vigil cutter that's sitting in my closet? Ideas anyone? You could try and duplicate this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohBxepGxIxc

I posted the PIA BOD List and had it deleted last week. It's pretty weird!

Sorry Bill, I definitely did some assuming there. I still think my post is valid, and it was not cool that is was deleted!

Re posting this.. Please delete it again Bill! Does Cypres throw you a free unit every time you cover something up for them..

I have attached a simple screen shot I got off the PIA webpage that explains everything. No need to debate this! It was a complete sham, and Cypres profited from it. That is all!

The tone of this letter is clear. They assert there is nothing wrong, no reason to think something is wrong, there never was anything wrong, our competition is complicit in destroying us, and our product is the best. That is certain to increase the distrust among their actual and potential customers. They should have been able to say they don't know anything about that incident yet, but they have been working on a redesigned cutter that should start to be available on XX/2011. Instead they imply that there is no reason to think there is anything wrong, they are just poor victims of a conspiracy. That wallows in a vast sea of lameness. Do you actually know there is something wrong with the cutter? All the cutters from the SB that where returned to argus were tested/fired.. All successful! This new report holds no water until Argus, and Mirage get to see the container and AAD.. Argus had to ask the FAA to step in so they can actually have the unit for testing.. The dropzone would not let them investigate. I think until the FAA is done there report people should relax. In a previous life I was a mechanical design engineer. I have quickly reviewed the PIA documentation at the bottom of this page (especially the "Argus cutter review"): http://www.pia.com/...nicalSpecialPage.htm The analysis seems to be sound, logical, without bias. Perhaps I've missed Aviacom's reply that shows how this is all a big conspiracy against them. If someone can point that out for all of us, that would be great. That report was written with out seeing the said effected units.. The industry is hanging Argus with out a trial.. Why order a recal if there is no proof of a problem? Let's see what the FAA comes up with.

The tone of this letter is clear. They assert there is nothing wrong, no reason to think something is wrong, there never was anything wrong, our competition is complicit in destroying us, and our product is the best. That is certain to increase the distrust among their actual and potential customers. They should have been able to say they don't know anything about that incident yet, but they have been working on a redesigned cutter that should start to be available on XX/2011. Instead they imply that there is no reason to think there is anything wrong, they are just poor victims of a conspiracy. That wallows in a vast sea of lameness. Do you actually know there is something wrong with the cutter? All the cutters from the SB that where returned to argus were tested/fired.. All successful! This new report holds no water until Argus, and Mirage get to see the container and AAD.. Argus had to ask the FAA to step in so they can actually have the unit for testing.. The dropzone would not let them investigate. I think until the FAA is done there report people should relax.

One thing I'm really curious about is if these manufactures sold customers complete rigs with Argus's in them, and then they demand them be taken out.. Should they not give there customers refunds on the AADs.. Hard to indorse something and then claim no accountability?

>It just takes down entire airplanes full of people instead? >>Well, no, it doesn't. Even when you get a parachute open in the door (which has happened on loads I've been on) it doesn't "take down the airplane" usually. >>However, an Argus that doesn't cut the loop and locks your reserve closed is a guaranteed fatality. There's no way to deal with a reserve that won't open when you are down to your last canopy. True, because if every time a Vigil misfired it took down a plane, there wouldn't be very many of us skydivers left in this sport. And it would already be to late to ban anything.

It just takes down entire airplanes full of people instead?

We didn't really do all the "same" testing on the Argus. For instance we did not try shorting out a damaged cutter :) , we did not try "breaking" the cutter off, and we did not hook up an already fired cutter to the Argus like we did the Cypres. I'm not saying the results would be any different, but we should test it under all the same conditions before saying that the same test was done. I used your video camera this morning to keep documenting the findings and noticed that both units are still on. The Argus with no cutter, and the Cypres with the broken cutter. I doubt a cutter would become unplugged after the unit has been activated, but anything is possible. I must say that I'm now a big fan of the threaded on style cutters like the Argus one VS just plugging it in like an audio jack. I'm a little concerned that breaking the cutter did not send any signal to the unit, I see this being a more likely issue, but with that said it has not been a big issue so far? It will be interesting to chamber this unit/cutter and see if it has any in flight tests. However if the unit does catch the damaged cutter during the flight, this would only be of use to jumpers that actually check their AADs in the airplane prior to jumping. P.S. I hope Joe doesn't read this thread. He may have Cypres banned as well, then there will be no jumping over here.

Right......... So should all Parachute Associations just banned products with out facts until proven otherwise. That would ruin skydiving completely, and we all know it. Unless there is serious proof of gross negligence most reputable aviation governing associations allow/encourage the manufactures to be present during investigations. In addition they call emergency meetings in the event something may need to be grounded or pulled off line. During these sort of investigations they our known to hire experts from third parties, and have the manufacture present to answer to the product or device in question. Nothing is done based on hearsay, there are way to many legal ramifications from jumping to conclusions, as well as it's just a bad #$%^ing Idea. Can you imagine being an all Argus DZ right now in OZ? If there are any I feel for them, this is not fair and should not be condoned by any skydivers. I'm sure Pratt & Whitney would have a huge claim against the FAA if they grounded all P&W turbines on jump ships because of two engine fires in Europe which had less than adequate proof P&W was at fault.

It is obvious that Argus was outlawed by the APF with a very weak investigation. If this is how they continue to deal with this matter, I think they're showing a lack of respect to all their APF members, DZOs, and jumpers. Also I have read peoples post with issues towards the circular cutters. I'm nearly positive that both the Vigil and Argus have these? Not 1000% sure but I do recall this during the product testing we did between all the current AAD manufactures in 09. All the cutters we tested cut the loops with ease. Further more all Argus skydivers need to speak out to the APF. Petition your Association demanding Argus be put back into service following the same guidelines as the BPA.. Or demand them to meet with Karel Groots, I'd say Argus deserves a FAIR TRIAL

I bought my first 4 Argus's in 2007 for our personal rigs. I wanted to test the product prior to using them in the student fleet. We used the AADs for a whole season and decided the Argus was a very good unit. The batteries are cheap to replace and it does not have a 12 year life span. The argus goes in for re certification every four years, and then back into your rig. Argus is not promising it will last forever, but that it will last as long or longer than the 12 year cycle. I ordered more Argus's in 2008 to put in all of my student gear, and our 4 way team started using them as well. In total over 25 units at the DZ that year. Still no problems at all. The multi function is great. I pull a unit out of any rig on the DZ and can sell it to a junior, or a swooper. I like having the flexibility of moving the AAD around to suit the DZs needs. I like the swoop mode because it turns off once you have a good canopy. This way when your going big you don't have to worry about it firing. It is also Water Resistant like the other AADs, but don't be fooled by claims that other AADs are water Proof! water can get in all of the AADs on the market if using them out side the manufatures recommendations. Argus also fires a bit higher which is good, and if you go head down for the entire skydive it will add a few feet to the opening altitude to help insure you get a canopy before bouncing. The new Ruggedizing kit is great, and the button is better for those with sausage fingers. I feel that Argus is a more modern unit with the end user more in mind than a few other AADs we've used in the past. The customer service is great as long as when you call it is between regular working hours in Belgium. How ever Karel has answered the phone very late in the evening for me, and claims if he hears the phone ring at night he answers it. I have heard a few complaints about Battery issues, but when I ask the users who have had the issues with there batteries how often they change them they say "when they die, or when ever the rigger changes them". I would suggest changing them every repack if you jump allot, and every year if you jump only a few times a month. You can buy the batteries bulk for just a few dollars each. Remember that An Argus is not a Cypress so there not going to have the same batt lives etc. But that in the end Argus still comes in a bit cheaper and offers something different. Hope this was helpful