MWGemini

Nice pictures, Eric. Still haven't figured out how to burn them direct to DVD yet, I'm guessing (once more people get digitals, we'll have to figure that out). I ended up doing a lot better in my trig class than I thought I would, so it looks like I'll be able to spend most of the summer working at the DZ, since I'll be taking evening courses. Is anyone else coming out this Friday? Mike

Yeah, Friday was great. Thanks again to everyone who participated. Sarah and I had a lot of fun. Today was busy. I'm actually pretty glad we had that weather hold. I was so far behind at one point, I really needed it. Especially after the news crew came in and took 30 minutes of my time getting the video footage they needed. Ah well. Hopefully the advertising gets CSS more business. That looked like a good group of people, and they looked like they had a lot of fun. On a side note- did anyone happen to catch my landing from Friday on video? If so, I'd like to see it before you erase it (if it's not too late). Also- Joe, don't forget to show me the coach jump you did with me when you get time, and thanks again for that. I'll see you all bright and early tomorrow morning. Mike

That was a lot of fun, thank you all for participating and bringing stuff for the fondue party. Hopefully that becomes some form of tradition, although I don't think I can handle that much food on a weekly basis. I just checked the weather for tomorrow, and it says: Which is better than today's forecast was. Hopefully I can get out there early enough for the first load, although I doubt it. Joe- thanks for the jump today. you'll have to show me that video sometime so I can try to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Mike

I'm really hoping that Joe or Dave had video. Sounds like I missed a lot of good laughs. I'll be leaving in the next ten minutes or so, so if anyone needs me to get something on the way, call my cell. Mike

I think we'll be ok with the two pots, but if you want to bring one more just in case, that's cool. If you've got skewers though, bring em. It's nice to have 2 per person, but I doubt we'll have that many. Mike

Actually, we only have 6. Mike

Ok. Let me know if you need me to pick anything up on the way. Mike

Marion - chocolate and marshmallows and paper plates (already got 'em. they're very marion...) Eric - apples and strawberries Floaty & Sarah - marinated chicken, cheese, bread Joey- another fondue pot Dawn #1 - Marinated beef, mushrooms, cauliflower Casey- napkins, cups, Drinks (soda & pina colada?), baby carrots Elis Dawn #3 Ross Justin - Broth stuff? Joe Dave Dawn 2 (?) I think Dave and Dawn #3 both said they can bring drinks as well. I'm fine with soda or water, not sure what everyone else likes. I'm sure Dave will bring his own everclear. The dinner at Joe's tonight was pretty good. I was surprised by how domestic he is. He has a pretty cool house as well. Somehow, they got the idea that I had over 100 jumps, and I was pied along with Ross and Dawn #3. I'm still working on getting that stuff out of my ear. Justin- Talked with Sarah, she said you can do the broth. I'll send you a PM as well. Dawn- I know our pot has an included burner thingie, I'm guessing Joey's does as well. If needed, we could use the sterno and another pot, but if we only have two, we can just clean one of the others out and use it for the chocolate. Sarah and I just washed ours between each course, it wasn't that bad. If you guys want to watch a movie or something, and have a good one, bring it. I've got plenty of DVDs, but nothing skydiving specific besides the obvious (Dropzone, Cutaway, the HALO documentary, and GYpsy Moths that Marion still has). Other than that, I think we're all set. If anyone thinks of something we are missing, feel free to let me know or bring it with you. Mike

He's probably referring to a double broiler, I'm guessing, but that would mean we would need another heat source (I think). Even if we only have to two pots, that won't be a problem though, it isn't hard to clean them between courses. Another thing I just thought of is stuff to dip the meats in, like barbecue sauce and things like that (after they have been cooked in the broth). I'll see what we've got. Marion- is it ok if I put all this stuff in your fridge tomorrow? I'm hoping to be out there by 2:30. Mike

That really sucks. Are you also bringing a pot, or is it just Joey and I? Because if we have three, we might not need to wash them, we can just do one course in each pot. What is everyone else bringing to Joe's tonight? And who else is coming? Mike

And I just bought a case of coke for the cookout at Joe's tonight. Mike Edit: Just got an e-mail from sarah with a list of about how much she thinks we'll need: 2 small bags of baby carrots 4 granny smith apples 1 head of cauliflower or broccoli if anyone wants them about 1 pound of steak if anyone prefers steak over chicken 3 regular bags chocolate chips 1 big bag marshmallows 2 crates of strawberries enough plates, cups, napkins for everyone Beverages for everyone Edit 2: Marion, can we use your sink to wash the fondue pot out between courses?

Marion - chocolate and marshmallows Eric Casey Elis Dawn #3 Ross Justin Floaty & Sarah - marinated chicken, cheese, bread That leaves Dawn #1 & #2, Joe and David as maybes. We will definitely need cheese, apples, bread, possibly marinated and chopped beef (chicken might be sufficient, not sure) and the broth stuff to cook it in (I think we can bring the broth stuff- not sure what goes in it, but Sarah knows), chocolate (we used I think two bags of chocolate chips last time, and had extra, but we might need like 4 bags now), marhsmallows, and strawberries. We'll also need drinks, paper plates, napkins, and cups. Mike

This might help: Marion Eric Casey Elis Dawn #3 Ross Justin Floaty & Sarah - marinated chicken That leaves Dawn #1 & #2, Joe and David as maybes. We will definitely need cheese, apples, bread, possibly marinated and chopped beef (chicken might be sufficient, not sure) and the broth stuff to cook it in (I think we can bring the broth stuff- not sure what goes in it, but Sarah knows), chocolate (we used I think two bags of chocolate chips last time, and had extra, but we might need like 4 bags now), marhsmallows, and strawberries. If you want to bring something, copy the list and add your item next to your name so we know what we're still missing. Mike

Sarah and I are definitely coming, and we're bringing (at least) marinated chicken and one fondue pot with I believe 8 stabber things. I think we've got another can of fuel for them too, I'll have to check. To copy from my original fondue thread: So, we still need a lot of stuff. Who is bringing what? I know we have some of the things on this list, but I'm not sure what offhand. Mike

I'm sorry, but I've got to call BS on this one. Look at the IP on the link. For all we know, it could be somebody hosting it off their own machine as a hoax. I'll believe it when I see it on CNN and other sites. Mike

Happy birthday, Paige. Hope it's a happy one.

Apparently nobody has any idea where you live, Joe. Can you give us all directions and a list of what items you need people to bring. I'll be there tomorrow, but not Sarah. We'll both be out for fondue Friday, though. Speaking of which- we need to get a final list of names together so we know how much food to bring. Sarah will be marinating chicken for it tomorrow, so a fairly accurate number is needed before then. Mike

So what is everyone bringing, and what is needed? Mike

I've heard nothing about it. What's going on? Mike

But given the same set of clubs, wouldn't he still be better than the next best guy (Nicklaus?)? Gear should not change how we jump. I feel that if everyone made each jump with the thought that they had no backup devices, or that they were likely to fail, that we would be much more cautious in choosing and maintaining our equipment, and in selecting what jumps to go on. I used to rock climb a fair amount. I have two ropes, and a fairly decent assortment of protective gear (anchors to the rock). I have free soloed before (climbing alone without a rope or any other protective equipment). I did this because I felt the climb was within my ability to do safely. When I first started learning to climb trad (placing my own anchors, something I never really got into), I made every one of those climbs as if I had no rope at all. The reason behind that is that I was not sure I could trust my anchor placements to hold. I trusted the equipment, and I trusted the rock, but I did not (and still do not) have the skill and experience to place bombproof anchors, or to know which ones are more likely to fail. When I was first learning to climb trad, I would not get on a route that I could not freesolo safely. That is no different from not going on a jump where I feel the risk of being knocked unconscious is higher than my ability to compensate. I'm not sure if I'm just not making sense, or if you (and others) are understanding, but just disagreeing. Mike

Once, actually. It has been my understanding that the only thing in the air with golf is the ball (and the clubs if the golfer is having a bad day, but that is another story). We're not talking device dependency there. On that note- does Tiger Woods NEED those titanium clubs (or whatever it is he uses) to win the US Open (or whatever it is called- I'm not a golfer, so don't flame me for getting this wrong). My guess is that the answer is no, he relies on his skill and lifetime of training. Mike

I think that is the key point. Equipment can fail, so we'll call that prone to failure. The AAD is only there to back up the human element. If the human element is prone to failure, it doesn't belong in the air. That is what golf is for. Mike

True, they are both parts of the system, but the question I think that is at the root of the issue is this: If they were NOT a part of the system, would you act any differently? Would you pack neater if you did not have a reserve? Would you confine yourself to "safer" jumps without an AAD? Would you drive as fast if seatbelts did not exist and we were still driving open air cars like the ones Ford first made? Just because a safety device is part of the system does not mean that we can allow ourselves to be so complacent as to rely on that device. This goes for any safety device, be it the AAD, the reserve, the helmet, even the altimeter. We must train ourselves to to rely ONLY on ourselves. Mike

Just out of curiosity, why don't you trust your main? Granted, I'm new to the sport and have a low number of jumps, but I've yet to have a mal, and I'd like to keep it that way. To be honest, I might even feel safer jumping a BASE rig out of a plane than a skydiving rig. Mike Edit: Yes, I know that FAA requires a reserve and that BASE rigs are not TSOd, and can not be taken out of a plane in flight. I'm speaking hypothetically here.

This is not a direct reply to you, Dr. Kallend, but to everyone. I think some people are just playing devil's advocate in this situation, but I'll try to be as clear as possible so that my words are not misunderstood. Device dependency is a bad thing. There are many forms of it. Like I stated above, people relying on their cypres, or their reserve. But also, people relying on their audible to tell them when to pull. Or even relying on their altimeter to tell them when to pull and when to set up their approach. Device dependency will eventually get you killed (collective you, not YOU personally). I would gladly jump without a cypres. And a reserve. And my altimeter. And my helmet. I don't NEED any of those things to survive a skydive. They just increase my chances of landing safely if not everything goes perfectly, which will inevitably happen. These devices have made the sport safer and certainly prevented fatalities. Their reliability is very high, and they almost always function as they were designed. There will be a time when something goes wrong and they do not function as intended, however. Do you want that to be the same time you put your life in the hands of that device? We should all make every jump as though we have no backup devices. Complacency kills. We should not allow ourselves to get complacent. Relying on devices that may fail breeds complacency. The chances of the jumper and the device failing on the same jump are remote, but not nonexistent. Setting ourselves up for failure only increases the risk of failing at the same time the device does. When that happens, it becomes another incident thread, and we've had far too many of them already. Mike