martwald

Based on everything I've read (and chats at the DZ this weekend) these are my conclusions (as much for me as anyone!), correct me if you think I am wrong, for recollection I am progressing from a Springo 160 (around 100 jumps on it) and want something a bit faster and responsive: Katana 150 - too aggressive a canopy for a pilot with 200 jumps; would be too lightly loaded at 1.4 anyway. Stiletto 150 - this would be a fine change, but: split opinion on openings (and I have a bad neck at the best of times); possibly an old design which has been superseded by the likes of the xfire2. Loading about right at 1.4. Crossfire 2 149 - seems to be a bit in between the Katana and Stiletto on suitability, reckon I'd be okay on it; sweeter openings than the Stiletto; more modern design addressing some of the shortfallings of the Stiletto; loading possibly too light at 1.4, especially for resale. Sabre 2 150 - nicely loaded; not quite sure will it seem a bit less of an exciting ride than my old Springo whereas I'm looking for a more exciting canopy - this is my primary concern with this option. Safire 2 149 - same comments as Sabre 2 (roll on the comments on how different they are, they really seem comparable to me). Pilot 150 - not at all familiar with.

I am actually very aware of the differences and the weakness pointed out in your post; I am just researching. In reality I'd love something with the swooping ability of the Katana but the decent rate of the Stiletto. Will take a better look at the Crossfire2; and some others; definately looks like the Katana isn't for me, Stiletto probably or Crossfire2. Thank you all, v helpful

Okay then: I am mildly interested in swooping but I'll never (famous last words) be a hardcore swooper, fancy my legs too much. I just like to fly a reasonably fast canopy, not a fan of docile canopies, found the springo a bit tame, hence the want to change.

Looking for advice on Katana 150 vs Stiletto 150 I am very familiar with a Springo 160 (for those of you not familiar, it's an 9 cell elliptical canopy); I have always found it very comfortable to fly, never found landings challenging etc... I am buying a new canopy and in the past would have considered a Stiletto 150 but given how old that design is I am instead looking at a Katana 150 loaded at 1.4. My reasoning for is that the Katana incorporates a lot of advances since the Stiletto was designed; one minor concern is that the Katana seems to be a step beyond the Stiletto. I would appreciate user comments on this. Now the main question: I am concerned that the loading of 1.4 (at 220lbs exit weight) might be a bit low for a Katana (not in the sweet spot); whereas 1.4 on a Stiletto is bang in the sweet spot. Again comments appreciated.

I don't remember when it changes from vomit inducing fear to exhilarating fear but it does! I do remember the first jump I really enjoyed was at the end of my progression where I was last out of the plane and I just leaped out with no expectation of performance just the pure thrill. The fear factor in the first 15 odd jumps was all part of the fun in my view. I no longer get to jump very often these days but once after a two year break I went back and got to experience some of the fear but nothing close to the gut wrenching fear of the first five or so jumps where you were scared witless when the door flew open, I still smile at the thought of that fear. So yes in the true sense of fear it does go away but trust me you'll look back with fondness at that fear and your conquering of it. I believe what should remain at least is a respect for the inherent risks of skydiving.

Thanks for the comments, I am content that it is still a suitable canopy, now just have to be realistic about how current I can get with 3 children under 3!!! Choice between a Sabre or a Stiletto, leaning towards the Stiletto as that was what I was familiar with before I took a break, thanks again.

Sabre 2 is in the equation, must find one to demo, no need for further comments, thanks for the helpful ones, as for someone with 314 jumps under their belt being the only one to give a useless answer, some things never change ;-)

I recently enquired from a supplier as to the cost for a new Stiletto, his response - that's a blast from the past! I know I am more suited to the Stiletto than I am to a Katana having been out of the sport for a while and highly unlikely to get more than 4 jumps a month for the foreseeable future. I am familiar with the Stiletto and know I can fly it safely. My question - am I mad buying a Stiletto, are they really out of date and due for retirement as implied by the sales agent who said the above???

No flaming, this is a genuine question to which I am sure I will get some angry responses but please hold back I don't give a damn for skygods who want to show how knowledgable they are. I am getting back into the sport and I am buying a new canopy to replace the Springo I sold a few years ago when I got out of the sport. Due to the fact that the PDF have fallen to pieces in the last while I am looking at PD and Icarus canopies. I automatically dismiss any non elliptical canopies in my search. I just can't see the point why any half decent canopy pilot would opt for anything other than a true elliptical canopy? Could someone please give their view as to why one might opt for a traditional 9 cell, other than very conservative pilots and crw dogs? I am sure I am wrong not to consider canopies such as the Sabre 2 but need convincing. Of course trying one out is an obvious choice but ignore that ;-)

Jimmy, The list as prepared and hosted by Nick is merely a list. It doesn't judge or comment on the possible reasons other than to quote most accurate reports. I quit BASE jumping a few years ago after the birth of my daughter. This was in no small way as a result of reading and analysing the list. Some of you may recall the very detailed analysis I carried out, splitting the list into various skill levels, causes, objects, etc. What became very obvious to me (although I always knew it to some extent) was the level of black death that is inherent in BASE jumping, regardless of object, experience level, etc. It was a level which I was comfortable with as a non father but I was totally uncomfortable with as a father. I would very possibly have come to this conclusion anyway but the list made my decision much easier. While I was BASE jumping, the same analysis was an invaluable tool in reminding me that the jumps I felt more comfortable with weren't necessarily the safer jumps (I utterly hated antennae but loved cliffs). Without the list being so publicly available how are newcomers to aquaint themselves with the grim history of the sport and thereby make informed choices about how to progress. The fact that many other high risk sports don't have this list is a condemnation of their head in the sand attitude to the risk, not a condemnation of BASE jumpers for being so aware of the possibility of death. I say a huge thank you to NDG and also huge condolences to those who know someone on the list. The removal of the list from the public domain serves no purpose other than to make it harder for newcomers (who want to) to weigh up the pros and cons of what, at the end of the day, is a very risky sport. Now back to my boring family life ;-) which I love by the way.

There can only be one group of freaks who would find this interesting like you guys ;-) http://news.sky.com/skynews/picture_gallery/picture_gallery/0,,70141-1253282-2,00.html Of course somewhat disrespectful seeing three people died. Don't fancy the landing area much, collapse was caused by sewage.

Anyone have any video of this low pull http://fishki.net/comment.php?id=13008

Do Red Bull only employ BASE jumpers who can't exit stable http://www.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-basejumper_200406_1100,00.html#

I have been working up to this having quit BASE a while back. Apparently there's a few guys in France doing this off solo PG's, just tie off one toggle with a bottle of water before you exit, as you exit bottle drops, PG collapses and lands below where you exit, wind dependant. This is how I intend proceeding with my airsports - no reliance on other people, no rules other than your own common sense, the exact same things that caused me to quit skydiving and take up BASE. FYI one daughter and another on the way is why I quit BASE.

I grew up jumping off a 10m platform at my local lake, thought I was pretty aware of risk factors. Progressed to cliff diving during a summer in Greece up to about 15m, hurt the odd time if you got it wrong but nothing serious. Then a few years ago after a scuba dive I took all my scuba gear off other than my wetsuit and hoodie, figured I could do whatever I liked off a pier about 3m high because of all the protection. Did a somersault into a dive but didn't quite make the dive, hit the water face first (only unprotected part of my body). Holy shit water is hard at that speed. Anyway sitting in the pub downing Guiness a few hours later the guys couldn't stop laughing at the big red puffy swollen face I was sporting. I also had a very sore neck for a few days. I reckon I was very close to doing some serious damage if the pier was a meter higher. Hate to think what a somersault gone wrong off a 10m platform would be like. All the same, it was almost worth it for the scene of exploding laughter from the pier on hearing the slap of my face off the Atlantic ;-)

No that would make me want to dust off my Mojo and get jumping again. Excellent editing.

If I go with a Sony, I am looking at the HC90 or HC42 or another if suitable. Money isn't really an issue, in so far as value for money is what I am after. Any further advice appreciated.

How come Sony are so popular in skydiving. Every general review site gives Sony very poor reviews in terms of colour clarity, value for money, etc. Panasonic seem to have the best value for money cams but no-one is using them skydiving. Buying a camera this week but having real difficulty getting through all the bs. Is there a specific reason why skydivers perfer Sony?

This might help some. Personal factor includes everything from ignoring advice, burning it in low, being reckless, etc.

Put yourself here: You are marooned on an Island with no-one to see what you do or hear you talk about it. You are a bit of a loner so are quite happy alone. You have lots of other things to do so you aren't bored. You have a 1000' cliff over a lovely sandy beach. You have a BASE rig (it's all a bit nuts so don't comment on this alone!). You're very happy as things stand. Do you start jumping and jump every possible day accepting that you might die and end this paradise? The only point I'm making (other than I've lost the plot entirely since I quit BASE - children arrived) is that you have to do this for yourself, not the image or any other bs.

God almighty, what's wrong with America nowadays. You go to war in a foreign country on the pretence that you want to bring your version of freedom to that country, yet in your own country you can't even express your view freely without apologising afterwards or getting grief from the officials.

If you read my original post I do note that the data is only of marginal value without jump numbers from each object added into the equation. I shall post a poll on the baseboard & here on % of jumps from each object and I'll add it in, this should add some value to it. To those who can't get the spreadsheet to work, that's not very surprising as I haven't posted the spreadsheet, only a word document with a snapshot of the sheet.

Back to earth = they lost altitude awareness due to flying back to earth. There was a spate of these accidents over a two year period, very often combined with camera work. 3rd party error = someone else fucked up, i.e. PCA released too early. Bad luck = this is the factor we all fear, where we have done everything correctly but the black death factor inherent in this high risk sport gets one up on us. Personal factor = hard to explain but for example, one of the fatalities consists of a wingsuit flier trying to outfly a ledge which according to everyone else wasn't possible. This to me involves a personal factor which is avoidable. Another possible meaning here would be carelessness in packing which would not be in line with regular practice - for example - pulling the slider up on a packed rig to change from slider down to slider up jump. You have to bear in mind that my personal views are inherent in this analysis. My view that personal factor is the primary causation of death (due to a gung-ho attitude for example, not judging just observing) may be strongly disputed by another party who may want to lable an outcropping strike as bad luck. Like I said it's just my analysis, if you'd rather (and if you BASE or intend doing so then I'd strongly advise you do) you should carry out your own analysis. Then again, if it's your preference to go and lep off a cliff with no care as to the risks, who am I to tell you otherwise. This exercise suited me, it may not suit or be required by you.

To all prospective BASE jumpers & current jumpers. I've quit the sport due to an upcoming addition to my family, so here is something of little use to me which may be of use to you. This is my own personal analysis of fatalities I used to refer to when I was considering what jumps I was comfortable with and what I could avoid to increase my chances of living. I am not going to include the backup to this as I am sure many people would disagree with my analysis of why some people died and I have no interest in getting into that debate. Take it or leave it, it is only of marginal value without jump numbers relevant to the objects to add into the equation but it does give a bit of a picture of how you are most likely to run into problems + possibly what you could do to avoid them. Like I said - take it or leave it. To those who have lost love ones who I have "analysed" I apologise, the only purpose of this was to know where the greatest risk lay and therefore hopefully avoid them. If one person without the relevant experience stays away from a cliff as a result of this and therefore lives, then this wasn't time wasted.

Just to be different I recently commented to my missus that given a choice of keeping one of my many sports I would keep windsurfing. It would be a tough choice, I love BASE & skydiving but Ireland sucks for the weather, whereas Ireland kicks ass for windsurfing.