elfanie

Find Cozumel and go west. Cozumel is a nice scuba destination. Just remember to sky first, then scuba. Or you can also find Cancun and go south. ;) Cozumel is an island off the coast where Playa Del Carmen is. (in my tandem pictures, you can see Cozumel in the background of some of them) Cancun is about an hour north. And they are all on the Carribean...gorgeous crystal clear water that in July was WARM WARM WARM and amazingly gorgeous. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Just wanted to point out that my VERY FIRST jump EVER was a tandem in Playa Del Carmen. got pictures you can look at of the experience...see my sig line, and on that page click the link for my tandem jump in Mexico. If you get a chance to do it there...they are absolutely fan-f***ing-tastic. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

My question is...if this award is based on skin color, how dark does the skin have to be? does it have to be REALLY black? Or can a "fair-skinned 'white-looking' who had a distant relative that was black" person qualify? -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

*confused* Ok, please educate this newbie 50-jump wonder... but doesn't this then delve into exit separation and safety? If they are pushing people to exit faster...can't that conflict with adaquate separation upon exit to keep people apart? -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Heh... and if you chop it....then we're even? -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

You sound like you think you're disagreeing with me...and you're not. I said that the friend should be responsible. Ivan asked who lasted packed it...I said why does it matter, the person who borrowed it should still be responsible.. and now you're agreeing with me, in a disagreeing manner. I agree with you....she (friend who borrowed it and chopped it) should be responsible financially.. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

not even in the least. you take FULL responsibility when you get a pack job...period. blues, arlo then why should the person who loaned the rig to her friend be in any way financially responsible if there is a mal? I know I'd feel bad...but that shouldn't make me financially responsible. (like the tire analogy...if I loan my car to someone and it gets a flat and they wreck it..it should still be up to them to fix my car) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

article clicky what's your opinion? Do you have one? -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

If I use a packer at the DZ and I have a mal....are they financially responsible? (even in part?) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

In my newbie opinion....it's absolutely the responsibility of the chopper (borrowing friend). If I loan my car to someone and they wreck it...who should have to pay for repairs? Friend was flying it...friend was responsible for it. Friend did the right thing to chop, but friend became responsible for that canopy the second she took posession of it. Just like friend would be responsible for her own safety and gear checks and everything... -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

I'm attracted to RW work right now...for a couple of reasons... first, I want to be as safe as I can be....and part of that, to me, is being able to do/be where I want to be at any time. In other words...being able to control where I am...go where I want to go, land where/how I want to land... and before going to freeflying, I want to have at least that skill first. I want more control in the air. Second is because I find it fun. =) I'm a social butterfly and enjoy jumping with others..and feel that the safest way to jump with others is RW. I have no interest in any other discipline other than freeflying..and don't want to really do that until I feel like I have more control with RW. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

I took them myself. and thank you... -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Here are my babies...all 3 of them.. My pride and joys -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

I wonder about this. My father in law is an avid snow skiier...and I remember his doctor presenting him with an award on his 50th birthday for "one full year without injury" because he was injured so very often. I wonder what the statistics for snowskiing injuries and deaths are... Wow....reading through this list... you're a busy boy!! I honestly can't think of anything that I've done that carries more risk than skydiving. Maybe my job..because being around all of the fluids and such opens me up to some pretty icky diseases...but I also protect myself with gloves and we do ask moms if they have any contagious diseases and test for some of them..(but some of my clients I have known were HIV or HepB +....universal precautions!!...) Skydiving is probably the riskiest thing I"ve engaged in. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

So how about this... Everything in life carries risk. Skydiving (general) carries a more severe risk than most sports. Skydiving is not the most dangerous sport out there as there are sports that not only carry as severe of risk (death), but the likelihood of injury/death is higher. I would bet that football sees more injuries than skydiving... however, the injuries aren't as severe when compared to skydiving. (ie. *most* injuries from football are concussions, sprains, pulls, torn ligaments...*most* injuries from skydiving are breaks, crushes, contusions. In other words, the average skydiving injury is more severe than the average football injury.) However...everything in life carries risk and when doing a risk assessment of the sport of skydiving, all of us who are currently jumping and made the assessment that they are acceptable levels of risk for whatever activity of skydiving they are engaging in. (I am engaging in as safe of general skydiving as I can. others might find that their comfort level includes swooping. others still might find that their comfort level includes BASE. But we all are operating without our comfort levels of what risk is acceptable to us.) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

First let me say that I appreciate the reply...I really do...thank you for taking the time to address these issues with me. Why do I have to experience it to know that it can happen? I had my first reserve ride 2.5 weeks ago...but before that happened, I knew it could happen. I knew that eventually it probably would happen. Having had that happen to me doesn't increase my knowledge that it could happen any more. If I crashed and burned this next weekend...I wouldn't be laying in the hospital going, "Dang! I didn't think it could happen! now I know!" Things don't have to happen to me for me to understand that they CAN! I know it can.. why? serious question...not meaning to sound like a smarty pants (and darn it -this is what makes computer communication more difficult. if we were in the same room as each other, you'd see that I was seriously interested in the answer and not being beligerant or negative.) Why would someone who has less experience have less KNOWLEDGE of the dangers? If I had a friend who had read up on what can go wrong..about safety measures...about statistics...about odds and such... I wouldn't say that they had less knowledge than me just because they've never jumped...they have the same knowledge as me. Let me also clarify that I am not saying taht I hae the same knowledge as you or Ron..I'm just saying that if there is knowledge you guys have that I don't have, will you please share it? I don't discount how it might make one feel emotionally... I just discount that it actually has an impact on the actual risk of the sport. reading reports to learn what to do and not to do..THAT can effect your personal risk because you can learn... but knowing someone who bounces, while it makes the risk more emotional and appear more real, doesn't actually change the risk level of your next jump. Quote It's my opinion that the perspective of someone who's seen the worst of the sport repeatedly is more realistic and true than the perspective of someone who has yet to experience much of that. When a group of people who each individually have a lot of experience both with the bad stuff and in the sport say that skydiving isn't safe, I listen to them. Quote It can be interpreted two ways.. one is that seeing the bad things first hand can make your viewpoint more realistic and true. the other is that seeing the bad things first hand can skew your perspective in an unrealistic way and make it seem worse than it is. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Or I could say that both baseball and skydiving are unsafe... after all, what part of flinging a small hard object at 100 miles an hour towards your body seems safe to you? *ducks and runs for cover* Seriously...my point is that everything has its risks...somethings are riskier than others...but we all do a risk assessment which is an individual thing. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Relative risk. bowling is SAFER than skydiving... but you could always drop the ball on your foot...

*grabs the whip for the poor horse* If nothing in life is safe..nothing at all...then why does it need to be said, "Skydiving is an unsafe sport..." everything is unsafe with that definition...so why does that need to be said? It's almost redundant. "Baseball is an unsafe sport that each individual has decided for themselves if they are comfortable with the level of risk that is associated with it and do what they can to mitigate the danger level." In saying "skydiving is unsafe"...you're implying that the level of danger is so much above that of other activities as to require additional comments about its safety (or lack thereof). Does skydiving carry risk? of course it does! Is it the extreme of risk that someone can take in life? it can be...if you engage in certain sub-activities...but it doesn't have to be. In fact, in its basics and done conservatively, skydiving can be relatively safe (compared to other things). -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Logic says to me (newbie that I am)....that if they are hitting the fiberglass hard enough to knock them out, that they'd be smashing the TM's face hard enough to knock THEM out....which would be a very bad bad thing. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Nope. with the definition of safe as it appears in the dictionary....skydiving is not safe. (oh puh-leeze, Ron...quit grabbing your heart...hell is not freezing over and you are not going to die of a heart attack!) But with that definition, I would also argue that nothing in life is safe...there is only "low risk" (which that, in and of itself, is a subjective definition)...or "lower risk" or "not dangerous enough for me to consider it a crazy activity to engage in" or "benefits outweigh given risks". -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Yes... but it's not in stone. Just like you already formed an opinion about homebirths...but if I showed you information, I bet you would change your mind (or at least be open to it, whehter you did or not) I find it VERY fascinating!!! And that's one of the reasons I keep posting to this thread... What is it that they know that I don't?? What information am I missing?? WHY would having 1000 jumps change your opinion of the sport? (and now I'm thinking, "Crap...I thought it was 500 jumps..now he's changing it to 1000." ) Seriously...other than personal anecdotal experience (ie. because it's such a small community that the longer you're in the sport the more people you KNOW...therefore you KNOW the fatalities and it's not just a figure in a book or on the computer)...why do people with more than 1000 jumps have that opinion? I was freaked out by having someone I know bounce at my DZ...sure. And it wasn't even someone I knew well. but that doesn't change the safety/risk factors of the sport...just my perception of it. (which is the honest question...it is just your perception is different because the fatalities become more personal? Or is it because of knowledge of the sport that I'm missing? If it's the latter..why will nobody share that knowledge with me so that I might learn?) I read every single one...and have for quite a while. and went back on skydivingfatalities and read every single one. Not possible.. because an opinion had to be formed when I decided to jump or not for the very first time. And that opinion is addressed every single day. If someone told you to just forgo your opinion until you had at least 10,000 jumps...could YOU do that? -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

I am afraid I have not got time (even if I could) to put all of Ron's experience, observations etc into this post. *nods* I don't want personal anecdotal experience though...I want information. ie. "did you know that ***** can happen? that **** people are injured each year who took **** steps towards safety? did you know that ***** fatalities from *** cause and...." I want information...not personal anecdotal experience. I know someone who bounced....and "did everything right"...recently. didn't know them WELL... but that doesn't make a difference. Personal anecdotes could explain why he feels the way he feels...but it doesn't mean that others should feel the same way. If I was walking down the street in new york for the first time, and got assaulted by a black man...and then, the next time I was walking down the NY street, I was assaulted by 3 black men.. it's UNDERSTANDABLE that I'd think that both NY and black men are scary and dangerous. Does that make it true? not necessarily..and it wouldn't be logical for me to point fingers at others trying to tell me that most black men aren't like that and say, "You just don't have enough experience with them like I do...so your opinions aren't as valid..." but if Ron (or anyone!) really wants to make a difference in safety for newbies....they should share safety tips and the things that can go wrong and educational information... like I said, maybe there's some information that I don't have (like researching the car, maybe I didn't look at transmissions, only at engines and fuel tanks)..and if that's the case, I want to have it! I'm doing everything I can to make this sport as safe as it can be...so if there is more information out there that I don't have that can make me a safer jumper....nobody wants me to have it more than I do!!! -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Excellent example!! Ok...if you were to say this...I would NOT tell you, "homebirths for lowrisk moms attended by a midwife are safer than hospital births for lowrisk moms....trust me about this, I have more experience with childbirth than you..." What I WOULD do is point you to studies...to trials...to explain WHY they are safer. I would explain iatrogenic causes, explain risks of interventions, etc... I wouldn't say that I know more than you do if you'd read the same studies and came to your own conclusion.. look at how many male OB's there are...how many of them do you think have EVER given birth. there are LOTS of people who have researched both sides..and feel safer doing hospital births. that is their right..and I'd never tell them that they were wrong for feeling that way. However, if they had inaccurate information I would correct them. (ie. "Epidurals don't have any risks, and the medication doesn't get to the baby." umm...yes, they have many risks, and the medication does get to the baby....here is where you can read more about that...) So back to skydiving...you have more experience with it than I do...undeniable and unarguable. You think I'm crazy for saying that the sport is safe and attribute it to my greenie status...which implies that there is some knowledge that you have that I don't have which should change my opinion, right? What is that knowledge??? I would LOVE to learn...and if there are things that I need to know to be a safer jumper...I want to know them! I'm not hiding my head in the sand saying, "LALALALALA...I can't hear you!" No..I'm begging to be told....what about the risks am I missing? What do I not know that would possibly make my opinion more like yours? -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings

Neither. I'd research the vehicle myself...listen to what the mechanic had to say, listen to what the doctor had to say, research what points they made to find out the accuracy and any additional information I could... then I'd form my own opinion. I wouldn't automatically listen to the mechanic just because he's a mechanic. And yes...I question doctors about every single thing, too...and many many times have found them to be wrong (and not just about opinions, wrong about factual things). I agree with this statement....sometimes it can take years to learn the necessary information to form opinions because there's so much information to take into account and assess. And if Ron (or anyone) offered additional information, i'd be grateful. If there was a bunch of stuff that he or others felt that I was somehow missing or didn't understand that they could point me to or share with me..I'd be every so grateful. But they keep saying, "You can do everything right and still die"...I know that! "people die in this sport"...yup, I know that, too! So what am I missing? What information am I missing that they are privy to that has made their opinions different than mine? If you know that 4,000 babies die from walker accidents every year - do you need to think about that statement for years before forming an opinion about walkers? (I made that statistic up for the sake of this discussion) If I know that ultrasounds have been used on pregnant women for the past 45 years and have never been shown to have any adverse effects on mom or the embryo/fetus - how long do I have to think about that before forming an opinion on ultrasound safety? (and that is NOT made up) Oh no..I absolutely understand why Ron has the opinion he does...and why others would agree with him. I never said I didn't understand it. I just said that I don't agree and that their opinion is no more right than my opinion. (as for the person who said that defining "safe" can't be interpreted or adjusted, you HAVE to go by the dictionary definition of "safe".....with that, I'd agree that skydiving is not safe. But with that, I'd agree that nothing in life is safe...nothing at all...nothing.) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings