storm1977

Ok... Iagree and disagree. First, you say that a lot of the insurgents are from foriegn lands moving in there. Ok, yes that is true. But that is also one of my points. They are not mastermind terrorist, they are insurgents. There is a difference. Now, prior to the war they had a life and a job presumibly. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that once we left they wouldn't have a cause anymore and they would "Get a job"? As far as the second paragraph.... I am sure there will be some hatered, but you are forgetting that the Iraqis elected the Govmnt. And they will elect the full Govmnt soon. Once the Iraqis have full control over their destiny, they (internally) will work and fight to make their own lives better. It has happened often throughout history. Let's pretend for a minute. Pretend the US never went into Iraq, and the people their decided to have a full revolt and overthrow the Government. Let's say moral was high etc. They would be in a similar situation. THere would be a minority group still trying to fight back and get things back to the way it was. However, with time, the will of the people would overcome that minority group. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I love this line. It amazes me that people still use it. Don't you think the US would at least be paying themselves back with oil profits? THey aren't. IMO they should. The US doesn't even import that much oil from the Middle east. It is cheaper and easier to get it from South America... It's much closer. BTW - Call me when you find a government that doesn't work in the best interest of itself and its people. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF GOVERNMENT!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

You never cease to surprize me Bill. How is your statement relevant? Is there not a war on terror? Are we not working with governments all over the globe to try to end terrorism? You are implying that we are not. That 100% of our energy is in Iraq. But to be honest, I will not have the Iraq debate in this thread. I really don't think your argument is valid. Nice try though on the change of subject... I'll give you that. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

i don't dispute that Bill. However, the terrorist in Iraq are not yet "Mobile". THis has been reported every where. The 'terrorist in Iraq have remained in Iraq and concentrated targeting on US military, Iraqi Police and innocents within the country. There is no evidence to support that once a stable government is completely in place and the troops eventually leave that this terrorism will still exist or even spread outside the border. It is pure speculation both ways. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

not what was said. What was said was that a person close to a person planning to become a terrorist could understand their rational. My arguement is, A person planning to blow them selves up isn't rational, and therefore could not be "Understood" unless that person too feels on some level that innocent people should be killed for no real reason. Example ... I oppose abortion. My friend does too. He wants to go bomb a clinic. I can NOT for the life of me understand that rational. Kill innocent people, to stop them from doing an abortion. Isn't that a major contradiction? How can I understand my friends rational if it is completely against the reasons of why he supports pro-life? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

You could not possibly know that, and I stand by my word that that is a niave statement to make. In short you are saying, AQ or other islamic terrorists would NEVER attack London if they did not get involved in the Iraq war? Is that it? Please correct me if I am wrong. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

You are foolishly making the assumption these are rational people. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

So what is the long term solution?? Appeasment? We should do what ever they say or they will kill people? No, we should be proactive and target those who wish to destroy us. Terrorist do NOT negotiate. If you give them what they want, they will want more. These people are a disease which needs to be eliminated. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

we will agree to disagree... I don't think it is the straw that broke the proverblial camels back. I think it is an excuse. These terrorist come up with different excuses every week. With us in the US, they used to say it was because of our support of Isreal. Then after we SAVED Kuait from Iraq, it was because we had troops in Saudi Arabia. We were protecting them by the way with their approval so SH didn't attack them. Then we pulled the troops out of Saudi and it was something different. Go read my post of an article from Newsweek. It is an excelent history on Islamo-faciasts throughout the world. Hanson, the auther makes some valid points about how these people only attack who they concider weak. The fact is the chinese have been really bad to muslims, but they are afraid of them and won't attack them... Same with India. It is interesting to note that following Sept 11th Mohamed Atta's Fater was on tv saying his son would never have done this, this can't be the work of muslims etc.... Why? Because he was affraid of what the US might do to him. 4 yrs later we haven't touched him and now he is on TV praising his son and saying he would use the Interview money to pay for more terrorist bombings. Why? because he has nothing to fear. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I know not what "Gidwon's Law" is. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

we also need somehow to get rid of special interest groups. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

And maybe those 58% should do a little reaserch on Muslim extremism throughout the globe during the past 100 years. Maybe they should ask themselves what caused each incident. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Firtst of all you want me to speculate of the # of deaths SH would have caused if we did nothing.... I can't do that. The only thing I have to go by is his past history. I think it would be a fair estimate to say that over 1,000,000 people have been killed under the reign of SH. He had been in power for 23 years... So that is about 43,000 people a year killed by Him. I don't think Containment was the right idea. Containment of Hotler wasn't a good idea either. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

If you really think Iraq is the Cause of terrorism in London, you are fooling yourself, not looking at the real cause, and are only setting yourself up for more attacks in the future. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

just wanted to clear that up bill. There are some crazies on here who would.... I had one last week telling me about the 9/11 conspiracy that it wasn't even a passenger plane that hit the WTC. I guess I must have been imagining it then that day as I was evacuated from my plane at LGA. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

That's a nice one Kallend.... small statement and run away. It is an excellent description of the history of the region and how the US and Europe were caught off guard. I think a lot can be said about European Guilt like was mentioned in the article, but I would go even further and include american liberals in there too. Stop symathizing with terrorists and start realizing they want you dead... Not because of Iraq, not because of Isreal, not because of Saudi, or the crusades. But because they are a flawed group of extremists who feel their own plight can't be there own fault, so it must be everyone elses. BTW - I doubt you even read the whole thing. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

So then you agree that we should not have invaded Iraq? Perhaps we did not strap bombs to ourselves, but we certainly did drop quite a few for the sole reason that our leaders objected to both its policy and government. Morality? Who defines that? The winners I suppose. WOW... that is the biggest leap I have seen tried in a while. Because you obviously forgot. there were 12 years of negotiation leading to the war in Iraq. Iraq was found top be in violation of 15 different resolutions and would not comply. That my friend is what lead to the Iraq war. Not US terrorist actions like you wish it were. You are an enabler. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Well it is a tough comparison IMO. The difference I see here is that yes...every community has morons, however their mission is different. I do not recall seeing on Cops any rednecks whose soul purpose was to defeat western civilization by strapping a bomb to himself. Rednecks are stupid and say stupid things, but they do not go on interviews insisting others try to destory their government by self explosion. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

no, neither make sense. You do not strap a bomb to you self and blow anything up if you object to a policy or government. That is just not a productive way to influence change. Not to mention the morality of it. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

You are right it would not. However, as you know, to us americans "bloody" just doesn't really show the same enthusiasm as "fucking". I iwonder if the opposite is true in England? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

It doesn't change the fact that these morons exist, and do so in sheltered communites of like minded people. We ask "How do these things happen"? This guy and his buddies are how. Do you think he is the only one? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

To be honest, I have very mixed opinions about it. I can understand their action, though the end result makes me very uneasy. Now the question for me is: Am I uneasy because of the end result or because of the action. I would really love to know which one it is.... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

you aren't implying that terrorism is imaginary or that 9/11 was staged by the US government right? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Just watching fox news and they were reporting on the British terror suspects. They were talking about how there is a lot of Muslim support for these people in London. They had a video in fact of some muslim guy saying this. What the bombers did was bad. They should go after busses and the tube where people go to work and try to make a living. They should have bombed Parliment or Downing Street. These MORONs are obviously not afraid, and it is no wonder all suspects haven't been found. These are British Citicens supporting bombing their own government offices!!!! The suspects will not be found and this shit will continue because there are enough shit heads like this guy out there to support them and hide them. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Kind of what Saddam did. Tell people to think like him or get killed...... Well let me ask you this. Do you think the Cops in England who shot a guy in the back of the Head 5 times were Justified? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty