olemisscub

The only functional reserve given to Cooper had a 24 foot canopy. Not sure what R99 is talking about

Double post

Why are you asking this question?

Of course. Here is one that is identical to the museum chute. https://www.ogallerie.com/auction-lot/us-military-parachute-model-p3-b-24-by-pioneer-pa_13E4434BC1#0 Designed for 24 foot canopy:

I’ve asked Bill this and he says it was a long time ago when he spoke with “Mr. Tosaw”, but he found Tosaw to be a pretty scrupulous guy. Bill said he can’t remember that detail specifically, but said if Tosaw attributed it to him, then it’s likely accurate.

Soooo much conflation in these early descriptions. You see another one in that same document. They’re saying that the Cooper backpack is the “civilian luxury type” one.

If there is some conflation going on, then sure. They are prone to conflate chutes in those early 302’s. But not every white patch on Earth says SSS # 5 COSS on it. We have no evidence that this is what it says on the dummy chute.

Cool, you found an exception that proves the rule, I suppose. But I DID say "generally" teletypes don't like unnecessary spaces and I'm not wrong on that and you know this. They tried to save space on those wherever they could. Perhaps it does say what you think it does, but "SSS # 5" would look weird spelled out like that on a teletype. I'm also not sure why they would redact that since they don't redact it elsewhere in the Vault. Then again, they don't redact Johnson sometimes in the Vault and it's redacted here. Who knows?

It IS a teletype. That's page six of a seven page teletype.

Yes I understand there is a space, but the way teletypes were written they generally don't have any unnecessary spaces. In teletypes they'd write "thirtyseven" instead of "thirty seven", for example. Knowing how those teletypes look, they'd have probably written it as SSS#5.

the "and" would make it all fit, but that's assuming the author put a space in between # and 5. Also not sure if they'd redact that. It's not redacted anywhere else in the Vault files. But then again, the redactors have proven to be inconsistent.

both of these fit. Although I don't think it's the first one because "instructional" could have fit on that line without having to put a break in it.

nope

I know Flyjack spotted this years ago, but this doesn't say anything about red x's or red flaps. Obviously the first redaction is Johnson, which I've filled in. But this second redaction is what? It must surely be a name since it is redacted. Although I wouldn't put it past the redactor to redact "nonoperational" or something like that, because they can get cute like that at times with these redactions. On the chance that it wasn't an individual's name, I tried to make the following fit the spaces, and they do not fit. The second line of the redaction has four spaces, so I considered that it might stand for "only." So I tried "demonstration only", "classroom only", "training only". The only thing on that line of thinking that I could come up with that fit was "nonfunctio-/-nal".

Good stuff.

I think you’re thinking too much into it. He just said he wants the money in a knapsack. Not sure he still had his service days on the brain from 25 years earlier. And even if he was, why would he expect them to bring him something similar. Knapsack is just a ubiquitous term for a bag with shoulder straps. If he wanted something specific he could have asked for it. Btw, I’m beginning to think that it may have been briefly in a “knapsack”, per his request. If you read Milnes’ 302 he says Grinnell brought the money into the NWA office in a leather satchel and the canvas bag was removed from this satchel. My thinking is that at some point they put the canvas bag into this satchel intending for it to be the knapsack. For whatever reason the bag was taken out of the satchel and was hurriedly handed to Lee without them remembering why it was in the leather satchel in the first place. Interestingly, Bill Grinnell has no memory at all of this leather bag. He maintains it was always in the money bag. But with respect to Grinnell, when we have a document from the night of the hijacking written by the Seattle SAC that contradicts his memory from 50 years earlier, I tend to lean toward that 302 being the truth.

Knapsack is just a general term for something you can wear as a backpack IMO. Seems obvious he wanted to be able to wear it backwards and strap his harness on over it. Zero chance of losing the money if you jump like that.

Interesting. Just don’t recall seeing many from WWII that weren’t tan. But there you go.

I don’t think canopy size would have mattered much to a guy like Braden. He found have handled whatever. He might have gone with which pack he thought looked newer or better. Besides, SOG guys jumped with 24 foot chutes. Even though Flyjack did find an example of a WWII olive drab emergency pack, they were rare. Thus, I feel safe deducing that Cooper’s pack, being olive drab, was a newer pack than the WWII model he left on the plane.

Good find on an OD WWII emergency pack. Never seen one that color that is that old. I suppose Cossey could have given Hayden two crummy old WWII packs. Not sure why Cossey would refer to it as an NB6 though. Let me be clear, I have a hard time believing that Cossey could remember these details of a random pack that he made 5 months earlier. But it's still notable that he specifically called it an NB-6. Regardless, I don't think the pack matters too much.

We're kinda splitting hairs here, at least on my end. When I say "green" I'm referring to it being olive drab. I'm essentially saying green to denote it as being different than the tan chutes. Hayden's description of the coloring is going to be more accurate than Cossey's, certainly. I honestly don't see how Cossey could accurately remember the exact color of the harness and pack six months after he packed it.

Regardless, nearly all green emergency packs were some sort of a NB-6 variant at the time. Whether it was an NB-6 or one of the variants doesn't really matter. All we can be certain of is that it was a 24 foot canopy. I believe through my numerous FB lives and postings on FB that I've been able to successfully convince the larger community of this fact. I think it's Cooper canon now. So, good work finding that in the 302's.

By this logic the museum chute isn't a P2-B-24 since it has a 26 foot canopy. Canopy size and intended pack size don't have to match.

Don't think this matters. You can put a 24 in a container designed for a 26 just like you can stuff a 28 footer into a container designed for a 26.

Agree with this. Most all reserves were 24 foot canopies. As you said, if they were that likely to cause injury they wouldn't be so ubiquitous. I've used this analogy: If you were on a sinking ship and your options were to get in a lifeboat or to put a life preserver on and jump overboard, you're going to choose the lifeboat. This is like the option of jumping with a 28 foot canopy or a 24 footer. One is much more comfortable and is less likely to result in any harm, but the alternative is still going to keep you alive. Do you have a higher likelihood of being hurt jumping into the ocean with a life preserver? Sure. But the likelihood of you being seriously injured or killed by doing so is slim. That said, Cooper wasn't a recreational skydiver. I feel safe saying that. If he was he'd have brought his own chute. He may have made a few jumps, but wasn't a dedicated or experienced enough skydiver to have actually owned his own gear. If we look at the copycats who weren't skydivers, 2 of the 3 suffered somewhat significant injuries. LaPoint basically broke his ankle and Mac received such a tremendous concussion that he crawled into the woods and slept for over 12 hours. Unsure if Hahneman suffered any injuries, but he was spotted the next day boarding a bus and getting a shave, so I don't believe he was. As for the NB-6 stuff, I'm not sure what to think of that. If it wasn't an NB-6 then it was probably something very similar. I don't think it was "identical" to the museum chute since that is a WWII chute and they were almost all tan colored. Hayden accurately related the color of the museum chute to the authorities so there is no reason to doubt that his color description was also accurate regarding Cooper's chute. Green emergency military backpacks were essentially all the same at the time. They were all variants of the NB-6 design. It's hard to tell the NB-6 and it's Air Force counterpart apart. So if his chute wasn't precisely an NB-6, it was something similar.