mrshutter45

That's more of your position than mine.

Here is what Tom emailed me just a while ago.... We didn’t see the chute when we were there on the first trip with Larry Carr. It was not an issue at that time so we had no interest and didn’t ask. When the controversy showed up, we asked Larry Carr about getting the info on where it was found and we were denied because he said it was a junk yard. When we went to Seattle again and met with Curtis in person we asked if we could test the chute to see if it was nylon and we were turned down. So yes both answers were right.

Plenty of times you made the statement of them having access to everything but the chute. that was part of your argument over the years. it was always something like "Tom Kaye had access to the evidence at Seattle but was denied access to the Amboy chute. where am I being deceptive?

I never claimed it was a simple joke. I said it was a April fools joke, wasn't it...just because the guy almost lost his job doesn't make it a lie. makes it a joke gone wrong...

On 1/13/2014 1:33 AM, clourim wrote:

You didn't ask directly about the questions. you threw in the "or later" . should of be a direct question to when he was at Seattle and not later. what is the date of the email?

Robert, it's your own words, not mine. you are making the claim that goes against what Tom Kaye told me? your failure to prove it tells me he never made the claim. you have to show the burden of proof and not me. I've shown the proof. I'm not upset about anything. it's more towards you asking Tom for permission. it's your claim. prove it!

That is not true at all Robert. you won't even accept Tom's word.... We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed Note the word "we" that means all of them that were there....is Tom a liar now too? I have contacted Tom. it's right above for all to see. I have asked him several times since 2014. I got the same answer.

April fools joke, wasn't it? that's not lying... I'm still waiting for the email proof surrounding Mr. Kaye. seems to be rather hard to even PM the proof? glad I didn't take it as truth. could of been fired for a such a lie, right?

I don't think you are being honest about it. that's why. you are claiming he was denied. I showed his mail. you claim to have an email stating different and refuse to post it. you post everyone else's emails? we have a thing called PM? why do I have to do your work or expect an answer from Tom minutes after a comment? you say no on the stamp that Cossey would of seen. so, we are now saying a respected rigger, regardless of what you think about him put an old chute marked 1946 into a container....some kids found it and the same guy who packed the chute reported it as a silk chute 34 feet....but it's not a conspiracy? did he post that in the packing card or mention it like he did the dummy chute? was it a Pioneer chute. 26, 28 feet. you seem to know? I like to think Cossey knew what he was talking about. I seriously doubt they overlooked the size or other obvious factors. the stamp isn't consistent with a personnel chute. I found a cargo chute with the same markings and showed it many times over. Also, what exactly transpired after Cossey made the 10 second statement. did he "dump" it back into the car or do anything else. what did Carr do while he was at Cossey's. nothing happened past the 10 seconds?

Robert, how would you be speaking for him if he says it in an email? As mentioned above. which conspiracy can we use. Cossey packed a 25 year old chute or the FBI put the stamp on the chute? how will it fit into being Cooper's chute?

What's the claim here. Cossey packed a 25 year old chute into the container or did the FBI put the stamp of 1946 on the chute?

I worked at McChord AFB for over 20 years. One of my jobs was checking out reports of old plane crashes. I can tell you that finding an old parachute almost anywhere in Washington state means very little. the 62 MAW which is stationed at McChord has conducted cargo and personnel parachute drops all over the Pacfific Northwest for 50 years. It is not at all unusual to have a cargo chute separate from its cargo and drift for miles in an unexpected direction. And reports of old crashes are often inaccurate. I have investigated wreckage sightings and found aircraft several miles from their map positions. And when you factor in the number of skydiving clubs in the area, I am surprised that you can walk a mile in any rural area without tripping over an old parachute. Dick Thurston

I keep asking for proof and you keep claiming they were denied even after a email from the source proves the opposite of your claim... We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed. TK ???????????????

How do you know it was in the ground 37 years? how do you know it was put there by the original owner. it would be odd they didn't measure it. even in 1971. then I read a 302 about another chute and they state to measure it as one of the things to do confirming what I suspected when I said they probably measure chutes. it's common sense. they don't need an expert to measure it. same for taking a picture. they don't need a professional? Whether you accept it or not is not the FBI's concern the way I see it. what it does do is it opens the door to conspiracies..you are not presenting facts. you never seen the chute other than a picture. you never touched it. you are the one assuming. you don't know what the FBI knows. you are reading from new articles. you don't even know where it was found. all I've said is it was probably measured and no way to tell how long it was in the ground.

did you read his email. he said nothing of the sort... We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed. TK You are not showing any proof of Tom asking them then or later....you have no problem showing the email to the FBI or even a reply but not Tom's? I already know exactly what he is going to say....you have been saying he was denied since 2014. that's why I emailed and asked him. the proof is above.

Parachutes are all over the planet. people use them for car covers, canopies, lines, no lines etc. no, it's not most likely the same person buried it. if Cooper buried it. the chute should of been balled up and small to bury easy, no? it should of come right out. you were not involved in 2008. I'm positive they measured the chute. why wouldn't they. they mention measuring another chute found in a 302? we don't have the full story. it's basically partial at most. When did Tom send this email. it had to be after you said Tom was denied or you would of mentioned this in the past when I corrected you. urging him doesn't imply he did..Tom never has a problem posting his emails... What I see a is many of us conclude things far to early. we just don't have all the information and many try to fill in the gaps.

Robert, that was during the time the case was completely open. that's not the case now and they are finally releasing documents. they wouldn't do this before closing the investigation. you are mixing two periods into one. 1971 to 2016 the case was open and not subject to public demands. they would hold a press conference and that's the extent of it and how most, if not all in law enforcement deals with open cases. I will call Tom and ask him. he never mentioned it to me over the years we discussed this nor have you. I have a screenshot somewhere of you accepting Tom's email back in 2014 on this site. even if he did email them after the point of his visit. I doubt they would allow it. things like that don't happen often. it still doesn't grant the right to say he was denied. if I email Asking about the placard you can bet they will not answer, so do I say it's BS and start laying grounds for the placard being planted?

Can you show the email. of course it would be after the fact????? He had access at one point. that doesn't give him permission to come and go. once again, it was an open investigation and they will limit the information, period...

Exactly what he told me..it wasn't clear because he didn't ask.... Added: January 13, 2014 We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed. TK

Robert, there is no assumption here. I asked Tom way back when you started your own assumption. it has nothing to do with today. you said they were denied. that's false. he didn't ask about the placard either but also said it wasn't there to see. it's possible both are no longer evidence and discarded or they were no longer at Seattle. doesn't imply any conspiracy or cover up. Tom was very specific. he said it didn't cross his mind at the time nor did he see it. they brought out everything in boxes allowing them full access. pictures can be seen of them looking over the evidence. he was never denied access to anything except the suspect files due to having the names on the documents. he also stated they have three sets of 302's. we don't have half the access he had or GG. you keep giving the same old story about the chute. I guess it would take you hours to find out if you wrote a book or not? I can tell things in my field in seconds. I'm sure 10 seconds was a bit of an exaggeration to begin with and not subject to a stop watch. same for "I knew the second I seen him" or "I knew the second he opened his mouth" really, one second? you have no idea how long the chute was there or where it was located. you don't even accept people use them all over the globe for various reasons. if you follow some of the stuff Fly uncovered about the chutes it would clear Cossey of being a LIAR as you guys love to state. then what?

Has no personal bias to it..Sailshaw made the exact claim. You are saying it makes more sense to throw evidence in a river vs burning it? thousands of crimes are covered up with fire. Tina wasn't in the area till 79/80. why would she go back to the area of the crime to discard? it's a horrible way to try and get rid of evidence. cut it up into small pieces, shred it, toss it in a fireplace. lots of ways to get rid of something that small. why the river? she could of cut it up and thrown it away. bodies go into dumps and are never found. why even tell the FBI? it puts a spotlight directly on you. do you know if they were searched after the admission? I'm very skeptical of things because I've been accused of things that were completely wrong but "made sense" . I'm talking about legal issue's and not just words. The last accusation against me was a hit and run. I had a silver Dodge. the guy was hit by a silver dodge. my tag started with the three numbers given by the driver. the driver ID'd me. Problem was the report said a Dodge 1500. that's a full size truck. I have a Dakota. the partial tag was my temp tag from 2008. it was 2015 when the hit and run occurred. I had a valid plate on the truck. the insurance measured both vehicles and my truck couldn't reach the dent in the back of his car. it was above my hood. he ID'd me from the police showing him a picture of my driver's license. no photo lineup. even when my lawyer showed the pictures and measurements and they still wanted to go to trial. a motion was filed based on the police failing to do a photo lineup and they could no longer use my name or myself in the trial. they dropped the charges. including a ticket for a expired tag.....yes, cop gave me a ticket for a expired 30 day 8 year old tag. I also tried to point out that a phone number in big letters with my company name was on the tailgate. they didn't care about that either. Cost me almost $3,000 to prove my innocence for a 10 mph accident I had nothing to do with. took almost six months to clear. the driver was trying to get $30,000 from my insurance company. he claimed two kids were in the back that his wife removed before the cops showed up. denied EMS twice on the report and months later wanted $10,000 for each person in the vehicle to cover hospital bills....so, bias has nothing to do with my conclusions...sorry.

You have been told repeatedly that this is false...they were not DENIED anything. Tom told me it never crossed his mind at the time to even ask...the same for the placard...

It was a joke. no, it's not gratuity but it would of become a crime if she accepted it..I see no reason at all for them to make any of this up or lie about it....