mrshutter45

I don't know if NWO was trained in reference to the emergency option. when you open the door for the normal stairs it hides the emergency panel. the Yap accident is not the only one with poor training on the operation of the stairs. just finding the placard on a jet has been a challenge. none to date. the opening of the rear stairs during a fire can be hazardous as well causing a backdraft. might of been the best thing for that accident that they didn't open..

The lock wire is a safeguard on the handle. once you pull the handle it will release the stairs. it also does some damage and they will no longer lock. it's a simple straight down gravity system. one single action releases them. the 737 is electric and the stairs come out of the plane from the side straight outward and then unfolds as they go down. if the APU is not engaged or is damaged the stairs will not work. the 737 has lots of escape doors with no interference to escape from. two front side doors, doors over the wings and one aft side door. no pulling of a handle will release them. The placard was found years later and it can't be proven it's in the original location from the evening of the hijacking if the placard came from 305. the odds have increased that it was from 305. it's an interior placard that was placed by the read door. that's the pressure door leading to the stairs. most know the controls are also by the rear door outside of the cabin. I don't have the placard/decal/marker yet. it's in transit. I'm interested in how tough it is in order to help determine how it came off the wall and was in the condition it was when it was found. it's extremely light and would drift far greater than a briefcase or parachute. without really knowing it's original location makes it hard to really use in the investigation IMO. \

Doors are on both sides of the aircraft. the passengers and crew all got out with limited injuries. the 727 is safe as long as the wire is connected and no damage to the stairs to prevent it from free falling. During the evacuation, the slides at the forward entry (L1), forward galley (R1) and the aft entry (L2) doors were used. The overwing exits were not used. One passenger sustained a broken leg during his descent on the slide at the aft entry door. He returned to the cockpit and noted that the fire department equipment had arrived. An unsuccessful attempt was made to lower the airstairs at the main entry door. The auxiliary power unit was not started because of the lack of information regarding damage to the airplane.

It doesn't free fall. it's mechanical. it doesn't have the option to work without power. this was proven July 6, 1996 on a 737-200. no power, no stairs..no pulling anything to release...it's a different system. plain and simple.

Again, the emergency handle is attached to a wire system. this releases the stairs. the 737 does not have the option to just fall out and work. The airstair assembly and the airstair door are powered with 115/200 VAC, 400 Hz, 3-phase power source located on the aircraft. The airstair installation and the airstair door may also be operated with a power source of 24 to 28 VDC. Airstair assembly consists of two rigid beams connected to the ladder assembly, which also consists of the steps, hand-rails, lights, and wheels that allow the airstairs to seat firmly on the ground when extended. This is what extends from the carriage assembly to the ground for entering or exiting the aircraft. It's like saying there is no difference between a starter on a lawnmower vs a pull handle...

you are missing the point...the 737 stairs are not going to free fall outward as a emergency option. too many moves. the 727 has one move...that's straight down. they are not electric. they free fall. they don't have multiple ladders, just one. I fail to see where a wire handle would release the stairs on a 737. it just doesn't have the option to fall out of the side of the aircraft.

I can't argue much more about this...they drop only after coming forward and not downward as the 727 allows in a single motion. it's a free fall operation only known to the 727. not sure about the DC9. the 737 or 707 doesn't have this nor is the 727 electric in any manner...I first thought it was possible but no longer agree...

A lot were removed due to failure out of the 120 which narrows it down further. they don't drop like the 727 stairs when released. they don't have a free fall fail safe option. the Hicks placard doesn't fit in anyway shape or form..

A unique airstair design was used for the aft doors of 737 Combi aircraft, which consisted of a clamshell door which dropped down to open much like a business aircraft, but then had stairs which were stored trifold in the curve of the door, which would unfold to the ground. This system was very cumbersome, was very susceptible to damage, and thus has been removed by many of its users.

doesn't matter. the emergency operation is a red switch. it bypasses safety circuits. they would overheat if used more than 3 times in 20 minutes. The retraction is in reference to the handrail....

Caution: The handrails must be stowed before retraction. The use of standby system from either panel will bypass the handrail and lower-ladder safety circuits. Note that the NG has an red covered EMERG switch underneath the airstairs for emergency retraction, this also bypasses any safety circuits. NO HANDLE ...only 120 with rear stairs before switching to the front..

those stairs will not release like the 727. they are not free falling. what would allow them to just pop out pulling a wire. how will they work by gravity when they come outward and not downward?

The questions to Boeing was not in reference to the decal being on other aircraft. personally, I would expect a different part number. I simply gave a possibility the computer seeks out words like a Google search engine does when they don't have a part number. just because they won't tell us doesn't mean a known customer or well known company won't get better service. Boeing was asked if it was on the outside of the fuselage or on the outside of the rear bulkhead door. he responded that it was indeed by the rear door and was a interior decal? that's in the stairwell...

You are the one who stated it could of been from a 707 or a 737...nobody else has made that claim. companies that sell placards give those planes the possibility. not Boeing.

I have not claimed the decal came from 305. I'm simply stating the odds are increasing. the odds are decreasing it was from another type of aircraft.

Boeing states it was in the stairwell....why is this a problem?

I fail to see how an emergency lever would release stairs of this type. they don't have the ability to free fall or be released.

even if the placard was inside the the fuselage under the plane it would require the panel to be left open...a large placard is on the outer door...

The stairs are on the side front and back on the 737..they are electric and not free falling.

It's a word reference the computer might pickup. it's not meant to be related to the stairs. the wording is related to other placards.

The stairs on the 707 and 737 are electric..and not aft..perhaps you should call Boeing to find out why they say the placard goes on those planes. actually, it's the parts companies and not Boeing making this statement. it could be as simple as word reference. the emergency door panel on the 737 is noted as the "overwing emergency exit handle" which is very similar to the Hicks placard. even with the door down under the fuselage no Hicks placard is visible. the placard suggests it's something that will release under weight or pressure. the electric stairs are not hydraulic or free falling. pulling any type of wire mechanism will not cause any electric stair to release. I'm going to check but I believe Hominid said the emergency access was also inside the box for the normal stair release. . I've seen plastic and metal boxes.. Boeing also stated it's not an exterior placard.. Door down is reference to accessing the stair release from the ground.

This is how you investigate things. it's very boring and time consuming. the myth is busted that it goes outside or on another aircraft. the myth is busted it was heavy. the odds increase that it's from 305, not conclusive but greater.

apparently, you don't read very well? I've documented exactly what is going on. 1) Confirmed the placard goes in the stairwell 2) Established it's weight. 3) Explained the controls. 4) Explained the different placards. 5) It's not an exterior type placard even thought the stairs are considered outside they are protected.

The placard/decal is NOT a heavy plastic nothing. it weighs next to nothing. even if Cooper tossed the chute at the sametime the two would be miles apart. it's very similar to what I suspected being like a bumper sticker...how it got off the wall is not known at this time. I doubt pressure would cause it to come off..

Just to clear a few things up regarding the placard. Boeing has been contacted and the decal/placard/marker was not on the outside of the aircraft the location was outside by the pressurized bulkhead door. that's the stairwell. it has adhesive on the back as I suspected. Several have been ordered and some of us will be receiving one shortly thanks to Eric. he also contacted Boeing... As far I know the controls are in two places in the stairwell and two places under the fuselage. the stairs has a large box with a door leading to a stick or handle for the normal release. the emergency handle is behind a small panel you pull off to access the handle to release the stairs if they don't go down.. The exterior has a door by the strike plate to access the controls. one is a lever for normal functions and then a pump handle to operate the stairs if the hydraulics fail. a larger rectangle placard is clearly visible on the door under the fuselage. the aircraft has two hydraulics (A&B) the stairs operate off of hydraulic B. Why the FBI stated what they said in the newspaper is not clearly known. perhaps they assumed when NWO told them it "was outside by the rear door" thought it meant outside on the fuselage. another thing not clear is the lack of documentation surrounding the missing placard. this is only documented after the find in 1978. they believe it came off during testing that occurred on January 6, 1972 but go further saying they were not sure. that would imply two placards were put on 305 after the hijacking...