padawonMonkey

If you really sit down and think about it there aren't really any crap canopies out there these days. Think of it like your playing a racing game on your xbox. As you scroll through the cars and you have 5 bars representing different trates of each. Some are faster but have week handling. Some have massive top end speed but need a miles to get to it. They are all good but you have to pick the one that caters to your stile. Honda Fit or Ford GT? My point is that if you compare modern canopies they all have their trades in speed, twitchy-ness or response to input, recovery arc, riser preasure, wing distortion, and the list goes on and on. Now if you don't sit down and analyze what you want and then hop on the next new thing you are probably going to be disapointed. If your expecting a Velocity and hop on a Sabre2 you will not be impressed. A Nitro is a great canopy in fact its only one of two that I have jumped outside the PD family. I only had if for a few weeks of demo-ing but I really liked the all around package. I ultimatley went with something a little faster but thats not a knock on the Nitro its just different than what I wanted. If I had discovered it a little earlier in my progression it may have replaced the Sabre2s I came up on. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

There are some similarities between the Vengeance and the velocity other than the whole "lines, links, ZP" thing. One of the best tools for researching a PD canopy is the PD website read the comparison that is writen for you. The Velocity is compared to other canopies that you have jumped.That being said here is my opinion; A vengeance and Velo require very similar inputs to achieve a desired turn. Similar toggle strokes and IMO riser preasure. However after a turn (and even during a turn) the similarities end. You wind up with more oversteer and a tendancy to dive much longer with a velo. Chuck has a way of being an angel on your shoulder during the skydiving day and a devil on the other at night. He won't steer you wrong on a canopy choice. And incedently if were to suggest a sabre2 and you think its to docile for you, you should his swoops on his. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

Just to clarify what I meant by "The one size or one shape rule is a good place to start but it doesn't always apply." Say you have a tallented student weighing 150lbs who starts out on a PD210, I think it is reasonable for that student to jump to a 190 sabre2 thats more than one size or one shape. On the opposite end say a I have 2000 jump guy who is on a Velocity 103 and just can't seem to get it. Well he has no bussiness going one size or on shape lower. For Everything but those extreme examples the one size or one shape should apply. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

Another generalization. I am telling you that there are people in this and every aspect of life that are ahead of the curve. Just as there are those that are behind it. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

What his friends think is relavent and it works both ways. If those that watch him on every jump think he is ready for it then he probably is but if they don't then he is most certainly not. This is a much better theory than the generalizations that are currently applied. That IS what they are GENERALIZATIONS. I agree that the one size or one shape rule is a good rule to start from but that still doesn't apply every time. Generalizations are dangerous. I know people that have 200 to 1000 jumps on stilettos and need to be on a size larger sabre 2. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

Agreed, thats the point I was trying to make with the second part of my post. The first part was more aimed at combating generalizations based on jump numbers alone. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

The wingload/canopy selection issue is to skydiving what abortion is to politics. It is THE hot button issue. Here are some things to keep in mind when commenting on a pilot you do not know. First, and IMO the most important, what do his friends think he is ready for. What a skydivers friends, the ones that watch him on every jump, think he is ready for is probably a good place to start. The DZO may have never seen this guy jump or only observed him once or twice. A DZO who is responsible will always err on the conservative side when he is unsure. For the pilot a good think to keep in mind is "baby steps". If you think about the different canopys available you can classify them in catagorys of perfomance and size. Its better to try and keep transitions within one size or one performance category while you are learning, once you have achieved the level of a swoop guru (not saying I am there by any means) you can pretty much jump whatever you want. What helped me progress quickly was having a butt-load of canopys to use to quickly downsize but never moving more than one size or performance category. I hope this makes sense. edit: what up Chucky...MOTORCYCLE -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

I agree that the neumans are the way to go if you need gloves. The only problems are 1)The tend to loose the tackiness quickly (it can be reapplied) 2)any moisture and they not only loose their tackiness but become very slick. If you want a glove that gives some protection for your hand/fingers and has grip comparable to your hand a company called Hatch has some tactical gloves that work great. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

All I am saying is that bad openings are not resultant of the canopy design they are a result of a force that acts on the canopy, be it body position, packing, or some strange meteorlogical force. If it were canopy design it would happen every time. That information is not derived from jump numbers but from design experience and common sense. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

My statement was quantified heavily. If you follow all the proper steps every time then yes you will never get thumped. If you, however, let one stow get dry rot or fail to leave enough exess from riser to last stow, or don't fully flake your slider you will eventually get thumped. If you get wacked it can be traced back to improper packing or body position every time. You have to agree that you don't just get wacked out of nowhere it is caused by something. If it is preventible one time it is preventible every time, the factors are just to easily controlled for it not to be. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

Think about line twists; your canopy is static it always has the same shape and the same lines (give or take the smallest of incrimental measurments). What is dynamic about an opening? You, your body position and your state of mind. If you take this into consideration it boils right back down to what I already said; its the pilot not the canopy. Granted the dynamics of highly eliptical cross-braced canopy are such that once a line twist occurs it is harder to recover and can easily become more violent than a more conservative design. I am not claiming that I haven't had line twists on my Velo (only happened once) but it wasn't the Velo out to kill me I made an error and I payed for it. My only cutaway, however, was on a non-crossbraced eliptical. (Vengeance 150) It is more about the shape of wing (degree of taper) than the cross braces when talking about violence of spin. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

Actually that injury happened under a Sabre2. line dump can get ya no matter what canopy you are under. And what you just said is another instance of the demonization of the velocity. It will only wack you if you fail to properly pack it. When people use "tricks" to pack a velocity they are eventually going to get wacked. Make it neat, flake your slider, pay attention to PD's recomended packing procedure and don't dump head down and I promise you you will never get thumped. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

agreed. but as with most things about canopy progressiong it is subjective. I have more experience than I care to remember with hard or squirly openings. There is still a picture floating around (I think loudiamond has it) of my neck (bloody and shreded) after a hard opening. So hard it put me in the hospital. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

I get that alot. There seems to be a good rule of thumb throughout the swooping community though. "If your friends (the ones that watch you jump all the time) tell you you don't belong on a canopy or that you are dangerous then you certainly are." Well the rule works both ways. I also haven't updated that in a while its probably more like 700 now (not that thats a huge difference). If you have less than 1000 jumps and are on a velocity you had better be ready to defend yourself, and I am. 90 percent of my jumps have focused only on improving my canopy skills. I am also always (after a few incidents early on) open to advice and criticism. I will gladly drag Chuck (skymonkeyone) in to assure you that I am safe and capable of handling myself. However, I will admit that I am the exception to the rule and to spite what I do know there are things that can only be learned with jump numbers that I still have to catch up on. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

I don't post that often (can't really get away with it at work anymore) but I do have my theroies about learning a canopy. You see for me it is more important to learn your canopy than it is to learn to swoop. I have jumped Sabre2, nitro/tron, Vengeance, Stilleto,a few others (not enough to form a good opinion though) and am now happy on my Velocity. Within three jumps on a new canopy I can confidently begin doing safe front riser approaches. I took the time to sit down with a good coach and ask questions and then developed a method of testing a new canopy that works for me. Carfully measuring its capablities and gradually getting more aggresive (very gradually) allows me to be safe and learn quickly. I would suggest the same thing for you. Get a Sabre2 or Nitro and learn how to make it do everything it can from backyard landings to returning from the longest spot you can. Once you have mastered your canopy and know how it should feel then begin slow shallow front riser turns (remmember you can always hang on fronts to keep it in dive if you are to high but its way harder to recover when you are to low) these turns will help you realize how to dile in your canopy and you can steadily get steaper and deaper in your turns. I believe this approach makes your canopy selection almost immaterial. Start conservative and then move on but as long as you are slow, methodical and careful you will be able to progress quickly. When you do finally progress to jumping a Velocity or the like (there is nothing like) you will wonder what all the hype was about. The poor cross-braced canopies have been demonized by stories of underexperience and overzealous jumpers hurting themselves regularly. Realize that swooping under any canopy is dangerous but it is and always will be the pilot and not the canopy that makes it so. Just my 2 cents take if for what its worth. -------------------------------------------------- "But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM