Flysight use for freefly?

[flooglebinder 0]

Just wondering if anyone knows if you can set up a flysight gps to beep for you to know what speed range you are doing. instead of glide ratio.
I ask cause i am having probs with my freefly/head down speed... too fast. Thought it would be good if you could set a desired speed in flysight and it would help guide me to it. would great for solo jumps. If any one know if this can be done let us know.

Cheers

[miconar 0]

yes, you can set it for vertical speed, and use threshold and max value for your needs.

[flooglebinder 0]

Sweet, it can be done.
Do you know of a link/website where I can find out how to do this? Im very green at using the flysight.

[catweazle 0]

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Do you know of a link/website where I can find out how to do this?

On the official homepage http://flysight.ca/ you`ll find a Support-section.

There`s a link to the Quickstartguide (pdf), and in the Wiki an article Configuring Flysight.

[flooglebinder 0]

Found it, Sussed it, tested it... Awesome tool
Cheers for ya help. ; )

[crwper 7]

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Just wondering if anyone knows if you can set up a flysight gps to beep for you to know what speed range you are doing. instead of glide ratio.

Currently, you can use the FlySight to indicate vertical speed, using the settings catweazle linked to.

I'm trying to think of how you would best accomplish what you're looking for... It would be nice if there were definite "edges" on the indication, so you'd know right away if you're going too fast/slow.

In the "production" firmware, the vertical speed threshold is active only in the glide ratio modes. This has been changed in the "beta" firmware--it's now used in every mode. However, this only really gets you a solid indication on the bottom end.

The beta firmware also adds min/max limits on the indicated value (i.e., glide ratio, vertical speed, etc.), rather than just max. By default, FlySight will keep indicating the min/max value if you go under/over the limit, but in cases like this, it might be helpful if it did something more obvious--maybe if it went quiet, or if it flatlined...

Does anyone have a better idea? Might be time for a little firmware work this weekend.

[drunk 0]

Flatlined (continuous beep) if you go over the max limit and quiet if under the min limit would be great in my opinion.

[flooglebinder 0]

What is the beta firmware? Is this a software upgrade? if so how do I do this.

[catweazle 0]

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What is the beta firmware? Is this a software upgrade? if so how do I do this.

Look in the Wiki, there you`ll find infos....

[crwper 7]

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What is the beta firmware? Is this a software upgrade? if so how do I do this.

The beta firmware is a development version with a few features that aren't quite ready for prime time yet. The main difference right now is increased flexibility in tone generation, at the cost of a more complex configuration file. You can find instructions for updating the firmware on the wiki:

http://flysight.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Firmware_upgrade

I believe it is also possible to update the firmware using a Mac, but the tools required are pretty low level. If you run into difficulties with the upgrade, please feel free to shoot me an email (michael at flysight dot ca) and I'll do my best to help.

Michael

[flooglebinder 0]

Cool, I had a read on how to update and install the beta firmware and I think I should be able to do that. All good. But I was trying to find if there is a guide to help with configuring the fly sight once the beta is installed. I am guessing there will be other parameters you can change to vary the tone and pitch etc. I can’t find any info, or will it be self explanatory when I look at the configuration file?
Previously you said…
”In the "production" firmware, the vertical speed threshold is active only in the glide ratio modes. This has been changed in the "beta" firmware--it's now used in every mode. However, this only really gets you a solid indication on the bottom end.”
I don’t understand what (threshold) is or what you mean by bottom end.
What does threshold do for me when it is set in vertical speed?

[crwper 7]

There is a little more about the threshold here:

http://flysight.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Configuring_FlySight

Basically, when calculating glide ratio, you divide the horizontal speed by the vertical speed. If the vertical speed becomes very small, the calculation becomes increasingly inaccurate. With the production firmware, there is a setting called "Threshold" in the configuration file which sets how fast you must be falling before FlySight will produce a glide ratio tone.

When you're using the vertical speed mode and the production firmware, the threshold is ignored completely. Initially, this setting was simply a way to avoid the mathematical issues around calculating glide ratio. However, it now seems like it's more useful as something that differentiates between, e.g., freefall and canopy time, so in the beta firmware, the vertical speed threshold has been extended to all modes.

In the beta firmware, we've essentially duplicated all of the "pitch" settings to add "rate" settings. So, for example, you could have the pitch of each tone indicate your horizontal speed, and the rate indicate your vertical speed. After playing with it a bit, I think this may simply be "too much information". One of the things I like best about FlySight's tones is that they don't require much explanation. However, as soon as you use them to indicate more than one thing, you wind up trying to decipher the tones in freefall--not a good thing, in my mind.

Even with the beta firmware, there isn't a really good way to indicate if you're going too fast. You could do something sneaky like use the vertical speed threshold to prevent tones below some speed, and then when the tones start to sound you know you're going faster than that--but it's a bit of a hack.

What I have in mind at the moment, to help with this sort of thing, is to have the usual tones within a range of speeds, but then when you go over the max speed, we can change the default behaviour (which is to keep using the highest pitch tone). Instead, we could use a downward "chirp" tone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirp

The samples on the Wikipedia page are a longer than I would use (I'd like to use something not much longer than the usual tone), but the "exponential chirp" should give you an idea. This should be a lot easier on the ears than a flatline, but still really easy to identify in freefall.

Michael

[flooglebinder 0]

Dude you must be the most helpful mofo on this site. I recon everything you just said is a top idea. And in the mean time I will utilise your sneaky hack to start beeping at the lower speed and increase up to the max setting. Yeah I also had a look over the link before. So basically the only difference in the configuration is that I will be able to set the threshold ( speed at which the start of the tone begins ) while it is set to vertical speed mode? Or all modes to be exact… but I will only be using vert speed.
Also I have only logged 2 jumps on it so far while it was set to default settings. I have only just worked out how to look at the data in paralog. Am I able to work out my canopy glide ratio to help work out better landing patterns? i.e. calculate where I should start my down wind, x wind and into wind approach etc. And map it out on Google earth.

[flooglebinder 0]

Down loading FLIP? I dont know which version to use so I clicked...
""Under the "Software" heading, click the disk icon to the left of the version you want to download. If you're using Windows, and unsure which version to download, go ahead and download""
"FLIP 3.4.2 for Windows (Java Runtime Environment included)".
But it just takes me to Atmel product release page.
How do I work out what version to download.

[crwper 7]

Atmel broke my link! If you go to the FLIP download page here, version 3.4.3 should do the trick:

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3886

Or a direct link:

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/JRE%20-%20Flip%20Installer%20-%203.4.3.exe

You can work out your canopy glide ratio using FlySight's data, as well, though I think Paralog trims this during import. To view the full data set, try the FlySight Viewer program here:

http://tomvandijck.com/flysight/

The viewer will give you your glide ratio, but I don't think it can output KML files yet. There is a link here to a GPSBabel style file which may help you convert FlySight CSV files into KML, though the process is a little tricky:

http://flysight.ca/wiki/index.php?title=FlySight_viewers

A word of caution, though: The actual glide ratio data is not as useful as you might think, because winds affect it quite a bit.

Although FlySight's tones would also appear to give you glide ratio data, this isn't exactly what they're doing. Unless you happen to have perfect pitch, you'll have a very hard time telling what your glide ratio is by listening to FlySight's tones. However, most people find it very easy to identify changes in pitch. FlySight uses this "loophole" to tell you if your glide ratio just went up or down--a much more useful piece of information.

All of that said, if you compile a bunch of data on different days, you certainly might be able to get a better idea of how your canopy flies in various conditions.

Have fun!

Michael

[flooglebinder 0]

Ok, I have followed all instructions and I am now running new version of babel. I noticed that the config file is identical to what it was before. I expected to see it say "Threshold for tone (all modes) and cm/s vertical speed etc or something like that. But it still says "threshold for mode 2 & 3". I set the configuration up as a test, to see if it works anyway. Set it to model = automotive, rate 200, mode horizontal speed, max 2682 (60mph), threshold 894. I went for a drive thinking it should start beeping at 20 mph and increase as I speed up to 60mph. But it didn't it pretty much beeped while I was walking around. So the threshold didn’t work. Not sure if it is something I have done wrong. I followed it all spot on, but like I said I expected the config file to look different but it’s not. Any ideas.
As for checking my glide ratio under canopy, I realise wind will affect this but I am hoping to test it on a nil wind day (at 1st) and make a mental note while flying from landmark to land mark in full glide/half brake/deep brakes etc to get a clearer idea of how much ground I can cover. Then I can map it out and measure it on Google. Then I can use those measurements at another DZ to get spot on landings flying a consistent pattern. Again, nil wind only at this stage. It all makes sense in my head but I probably don’t explain it very well.
Yeah I had a go at converting files before trying to load up onto Google earth but had no joy, Until I stumbled across paralog.
I don’t plan on using the tones while under canopy I think that would be pointless, just want to map out some measurements.
Cheers for all your help, with out it this would have taken me a whole lot longer.

[crwper 7]

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Ok, I have followed all instructions and I am now running new version of babel. I noticed that the config file is identical to what it was before.

Ah, yes. To update the config file, delete the old one, unplug the FlySight from your PC, and turn the FlySight's power on then back off. When you plug it in again, the new file should be there.

Michael

[flooglebinder 0]

Ok, I deleted the config file. Disconnected flysight. Turned it on and off. Plugged it in and I now have the config file back. But it looks identical to the last one. Are you able to attach a copy of what the new config file looks like?

[LukeH 0]

If you got the same config file it means that you don't have the new firmware. Try following the steps again and make sure you download the Beta firmware.

The new file has an extra section and is similar to the block of red text on this page:
https://github.com/flysight/flysight/blob/master/FlySight/FlySight/Config.c

[flooglebinder 0]

I now have the new firmware on flysight. I have tested it with min and max set at 20kph and 60kph.
And it works sweet I can tell when I get over 20 and same for the max.... This will work great in freefall.

What I would like to know is, is there a link to a detailed explanation of the rest of the settings that I now have in the file that I can adjust? Or do I just need to change things around a bit and test them to see what changes it will makes? I have attached a pic of the config file check it out and see if anyone can fill in the blanks for me.

[LukeH 0]

With this beta firmware, you have two indications.
-Tone (pitch of the beep you hear)
-Rate (frequency of the tone)

All of the settings under "; Tone settings" apply to that indication only
All of the settings under "; Rate settings" apply to that indication only so you have a second set of them.

If both Tone and Rate are set to the same mode, then they will both be affected together, however they can be set to different modes. See Mode: and Mode_2: settings.

Re the Min_Rate and Max_Rate
I wouldn't go higher than 800 for the Max (I'd probably leave it at 500) or lower than 100 for the Min. Each beep lasts 1/8 second so at 800 I'd expect 8 per second to sound more or less like a continuous beep (I haven't tried it) At 100, it'll be one beep per second.

Re Flatline
If you are using the settings file as per the image posted, you have Mode_2 set to 9 which is rate of change of Mode. Mode is set to 0 (Horizontal speed). When your speed is constant then you are below the minimum rate of change (set to 300cm per second/10.9kph/6.7mph) so it should Flatline. I haven't tried this either but that's my reading of the config file.

This is the link to where the configuration is explained, however it hasn't been updated to include the new settings in the Beta firmware.
http://flysight.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Configuring_FlySight

I think the above is correct, but haven't played with Mode_2 much and am in a hurry now, someone correct me if it's wrong!

P.S. It looks like the Beta you have is not the very latest code. Not sure if it matters but there was a slight change made since your version.

[crwper 7]

When I get a moment, I'll update the configuration page on the wiki to include the additional settings. In the meantime:

All of the "option_2" values control the tone rate in the same way that the "option" values control the tone's pitch.

By default, the rate of the tones depends on the change in the indicated value--i.e., glide ratio, speed, etc. The tones speed up a little when things are changing, and eventually settle down to 1 tone per second. That's what the FlySight does when "Mode_2" is set to "9".

However, maybe you want to indicate two different values. For example, a swooper might use the tone's pitch to indicate total speed, and the rate to indicate vertical speed. That way, if they are practising up high, they can not only get an indication of their total speed, but also if they are flying level. In this case, they would set "Mode" to "4", and "Mode_2" to "1".

I suspect this is more information than someone can intuitively handle, but the beta firmware is all about experimenting with new ideas, so the option is there.

The "Min_val_2" and "Max_val_2" values control the range used for the tone's rate, in the same way that "Min" and "Max" control the range used for the tone's pitch. Continuing with the example of the swooper above, these would control the relationship between vertical speed and tone rate. The swooper might choose "0" for "Min_val_2" so that the slowest rate corresponds with level flight. "Max_val_2" could be set a little higher than the fastest expected rate of descent.

"Min_rate" and "Max_rate" control the actual tone rate at each of these extremes. By default, the slowest tone (i.e., when nothing is changing) is 1 tone per second, while the fastest (things are changing very quickly) is 5 tones per second.

"Flatline" controls the behaviour of the tones when the indicated value drops below "Min_val_2". Remember--this is based on the settings for tone rate, not tone pitch. With everything else set to the defaults, if you change "Flatline" to "1", the tone will flatline when your glide ratio is changing very little.

Going back to the swooper example, the tone rate will decrease as the swooper gets closer and closer to flying level. But what he really wants to know is when he's in level flight. So, he could set "Min_val_2" to some very low vertical speed, and set "Flatline" to "1". With these settings, the tones would get slower and slower until "level flight" was reached, at which point they would suddenly flatline. The sharp change in indication can be useful if you want to know precisely when your vertical speed drops below some value.

My feeling is that most people's eyes will be glazing over a bit by now, which is why these changes haven't made it into the production firmware. For the most part, I think the tone rate is something you shouldn't have to mess with--the default behaviour is pretty intuitive. In cases like yours, what is needed is simply a clear indication (e.g., a chirp) of when the indicated value is outside the "Min/Max" bounds.

Hope this helps!

Michael

[flooglebinder 0]

Yeah it’s all a lot to take in, but the more I learn about it the more I realise it’s such a great tool. Are you able to elaborate on what exactly is “total speed” I get the other modes but is total speed a sum of vertical and horizontal or something?

Your right about my needs (free flying within a speed range) Is the chirp sound a work in progress?

I will be trying a new canopy soon too so Flysight can help me test it out up high with regards to practicing dives and flaring etc. Very cool bit of gear I recon. Hey when you do get around to updating the config page make sure you post a link here too. Thanks heaps for your help, I sure did need it.

[crwper 7]

Total speed is your combined horizontal/vertical speed. This is useful, for example, for swoopers. A swooper's goal is to build speed with the landing turn, then retain as much as possible of that speed as the canopy planes out--really, exchanging vertical speed for horizontal. Total speed stays fairly continuous through that manoeuvre, so it can be useful to identify places where your input causes you to lose energy.

The chirp is a work in progress. With any luck, I'll have it added to the beta version in the next couple of days. I'll let you know when it's up.

Michael

[flooglebinder 0]

Your awesome!!! If eva I am in Canada I shall shout you a jump... Look forward to the chirp......