Establishing a System / Process for Wingsuit Records ?

[ScottGray 0]

Moved from another thread ----- Intended to start a discussion on this topic and move this issue forward for an interim process that can be adjusted and evolved over time.

All things have to start somewhere and typically all parties can never be totally satisfied.

POST FROM SCOTT GRAY:

Short of someone establishing guidelines and rules for claiming unofficial formation records, there is likely more than enough photo and video evidence of a US Record from Flock N Dock 3.0. We need to start some where. We had two jumps with 3 planes, one was a 46 way and the other a 48 way. Might suggest taking the widest angle photo from the two with the most birds and claim a US Non-slot Specific Record. If someone can bring forward evidence of a larger flock, more power to them and it will give us something to shoot for in the fall or next spring. Perhaps Robi, Scott C., Fly Like Brink, or Top Gun guys can give some info on what the World Record might be. I know they are going to attempt to set a World Record in Germany this year, Scott is one of the organizers.

REPLY FROM MACCORDIA:

I think close to 42 (out of the +- 48 who exited) people in the same place in the air (with roughly 30 or so actualy flying within 5 meters about where they need be) is the current 'record' But most people coming to Cochstedt this year dont seem to care about the biggest exit 'record' that much. Flying the biggest slotted formation, everyone in his place, is going to be most peoples focus for this year. I think the slotperfect (US, Z flock) 9 way diamond, and (EU, Herc boogie 2004) 14 way V formation that have been flown so far should count as the ONLY true records. And we should work our way up from that. Slotted, clean and evenly spaced formations with people skilled enough to fly them.. Though its fun to talk and laugh with people about their experiences on having been on 48 way (US) and 69 way (EU) exits, while they cant even fly to another person on a 2 way, its not really the proper and safe way fo working towards 'records' I think something in the 25+ flyers range, a slotted and clean formation should be and would be the the next true bigway record.

REPLY FROM SCOTT GRAY:

I like the approach. We perhaps will find as wingsuit flying continues to increase that, as inferred, different pilots may have different things that are important. I like the slot specific approach as it drives us to improve skills and advance the sport. If we are to push this forward and barrow from other areas of skydiving, the formation would need to be pre-determined, all flyers within their specific slot, and held for a period of time. For others there still might be room for non-slot specific flocking records. Suggest this would be more strict than just how many birds exited the aircraft, but rather how many actually got into the flock. Lacking a formal organization (e.g. USPA, POPS, others) that would certify the records, photographic evidence is likely the way to go. I am always a fan of not reinventing and using what we have, no reason why the Dropzone.com Wingsuit forum could not be the means to declare a record. Photos must be included. This is a natural process of maturing our sport. Best to start with something simple with wide appeal that can be successful and evolve over time. In addition, we likely can take some lessons learned from the European Birdman Tour on how to address time and distance records. One option is to tag onto the Tracking Derby web-site using GPS and the guidelines they have established.


Let's get some proactive discussion on this -----

WSI-5 / PFI-51 / EGI-112 / S-Fly
The Brothers Gray Wing Suit Academy
Contact us for first flight and basic flocking courses at your DZ or boogie.
www.thebrothersgray.com

[ScottGray 0]

If we are to extend the perspective of slot specific formation records and non-slot specific flocking records ---

Based upon messages I have received, it has been suggested that the 9-way diamond by the Z-Flock should be the starting point for the slot specific US and FL state records.

A count of the birds within the photos taken by Matt Hoover and one taken from the ground during Flock N Dock 3.0, indicated 39 birds within flock, with a few stragglers. This would suggest that the initial non-slot specific flocking US & FL state records could stand at 39, allowing for a target for future events.

Thoughts and comments from all within the wingsuit community are welcomed.

WSI-5 / PFI-51 / EGI-112 / S-Fly
The Brothers Gray Wing Suit Academy
Contact us for first flight and basic flocking courses at your DZ or boogie.
www.thebrothersgray.com

[Buried 0]

Quote

This would suggest that the initial non-slot specific flocking US & FL state records could stand at 39,

The larger formations were slot specific for the most part. Remember we had the base, the front lines, second lines, etc as slot specifc.

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[ScottGray 0]

Good point. On both the 46 and the 48 way dives people were given specific slots and they were dirt dived with those slots. Also agree that likely the 10 or so birds around the base made it to their specific slots. Just borrowing a page from the RW world, to be absolutely slot specific each bird would need to be no in a slot but in its designated slot, regardless if there was an open position to the left or right.

In the RW world, with some if you declared an eight way dive that was slot specific and only seven got there, then the attempt would not be valid as a slot specific pre-determined dive by some judges.

I was hoping for a little more dialogue on this topic to gain a modest consensus, regardless of what that might be. I guess more of a generally accepted norm.

I have no axe to grind on this or advocating any specific approach / position.

Open to all comments and feedback.

Thanks for the reply.

WSI-5 / PFI-51 / EGI-112 / S-Fly
The Brothers Gray Wing Suit Academy
Contact us for first flight and basic flocking courses at your DZ or boogie.
www.thebrothersgray.com

[sdctlc 0]

Basically in the RW world and in the CRW world I am guessing. The number that leave the plane Separate from Camera need to be in the slots with the correct grips for it to be good. WS flocks generally dont look for taking grips but there are slot issues. Also in RW it does not have to be pretty to count but that opens the door in WS a bit as flying "No Contact" slots is what we do. This "Looks pretty" and "No Contact formations" offers big differences in my mind as to how close is close enough for a successful flock record wise?? Differences in proximity opinions could start to creep into the determination of a successufl flock. If your going to open the door for aq more formal process this might need to be looked at given with RW you can see the formation with grips not I was in my slot in a +/- range of distance.

Hope that makes some level of sense..

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[mccordia 73]

I think Id define a record as a completely formed formation.
Nobody left out. A picture with a formation, evenly spaced.

The distance doesnt matter that much, as long as it looks like a formation, and the rough shape is recognisable.

Anything with people not in their slots, falls under the biggest exit with wingsuit catagory.

And slotspecific would be an option. But anything over a 9 way, its getting harder and harder for the birds in the back (or wherever) to see which slot is still empty..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[chrisgray 0]

I agree with McCordia in regard to a fully built formation with tight spacing and a defined appearance being the objective. If the formation is all in frame and is the same as pre-planned it would be acceptable.

While at Skyfest I would like to see us organize at least a Texas Record and if all goes well perhaps a US Record. I think a 20 way in the above mentioned format would take both.

-Chris-

WSI-6 / PFI-55
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray

[BobFolline 0]

I agree with Scott as well.

I would like to see the definition of complete formation as slot perfect as planned and within +/- 10 degrees of drawn formation.

Therefore a record formation would always start with a drawn formation. Drawing the formation after it happens is not acceptable.

But what about lets take grips and forget the grip question? I am sure we could start some 4-6 ways with grips.

Bob

Working to be the last flyer on a birdman suit. ;-)
...
Who also flies a tony suit.