trackingderby 0 #26 April 4, 2006 we found a really easy way to experiment the acuracy of GPS recorder. You let them on the ground for a good hours, then yopu watch the log. It is very usefull to see a device jumping all over the place :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #27 April 4, 2006 Quotewe found a really easy way to experiment the acuracy of GPS recorder. You let them on the ground for a good hours, then yopu watch the log. It is very usefull to see a device jumping all over the place :) That experiment would determine precision more than accuracy (these are different things). Any measurement device has a range of error. If you understand this and can interpret the data, the device is useful.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #28 April 4, 2006 Klaus, you beat me to the punch, I was going to post something very similar. Thanks for describing that"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #29 April 4, 2006 QuoteThat experiment would determine precision more than accuracy (these are different things). Any measurement device has a range of error. If you understand this and can interpret the data, the device is useful. Ah, interesting, Matt. I'm sure my science teachers have probably talked about it, but I had to look it up again: http://www.chem.tamu.edu/class/fyp/mathrev/mr-sigfg.htmlCostyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #30 April 4, 2006 Quotewe found a really easy way to experiment the acuracy of GPS recorder. Like Matt (The111) said, thats more of a precission or +/- accuracy of the receiver at any given moment. It will change based on which satellites the receiver can "see" at the time and with any of the known factors that affect GPS accuracy coming into play such as: Ionosphere: 5.0 to 7.0 meters Troposphere: 0.5 to 0.7 meters Satellite clocks: < 1 to 3.6 meters Orbital errors: < 1 meter Receiver noise: 0.3 to 1.5 meters Multipath: undetermined User error: Up to a kilometer or more . Most can be figured for and corrected in post processing.Being that we are using the receiver while in the sky, we have less issues than on the ground as long as the receiver has a clear view of the sky.And as Klaus mentioned, distances and speeds derived from those readings seem to be quite accurate as are the altitudes. Which is why I recommended in the other thread on the TD, that you judge the flight based on "X" altitude to "X" altitude. You can also use a normal freefall logger to average the altitudes out if there is a large difference."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vidiot 0 #31 April 4, 2006 Quotewe found a really easy way to experiment the acuracy of GPS recorder. You let them on the ground for a good hours, then yopu watch the log. It is very usefull to see a device jumping all over the place :) Those long-term errors are most likely caused by the receiver switching satellites as they come into/get out of view. Most unlikely during a 1-2min. skydive. The same goes for the other error sources Scott mentioned. We are in the lucky situation that we only need the accuracy for a short period of time (minutes) in a very GPS-friendly environment - clear view of the sky, elevated, no trees, canyons, buildings around. I'ts a differnt story for BASE, though. My Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trackingderby 0 #32 April 5, 2006 precison/accuracy, forgive a french man speacking english:) If you juge a tracking race in between two altitudes, you have a glide ratio race, witch will make sence with the same weight, size and suits... A race against the time is a ground speed race, then you can adapt your flight to maintain the best ground speed. This is the very goal of the Tracking Derby. A race where all players are potential winners. Check http://www.trackingderby.com/results_event.php?event=12, and see the profile of performers, Also on other events, the suits types are not really significants. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #33 April 5, 2006 QuoteIf you juge a tracking race in between two altitudes, you have a glide ratio race, witch will make sence with the same weight, size and suits... Well we are in agreement on this. QuoteA race against the time is a ground speed race, then you can adapt your flight to maintain the best ground speed. This is the very goal of the Tracking Derby. A race where all players are potential winners. A groundspeed race is a good idea, and if you are measuring distance covered (instead of speed directly), then yes you would have to make time the basis of the race. I disagree that suit and weight will not play any role in this, but I guess they are less important than in a glide ratio contest. And honestly, I think what you've come up with is a horizontal version of speed skydiving. Heavier people have an advantage there, as do people with superior speedsuits, I'd imagine. I don't know much about speed skydiving so these are both guesses. Does speed skydiving have weight classes?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #34 April 5, 2006 Quote[Almost all places where you can mount it so you can see it are facing downwards during normal belly to earth flight or have your body between the unit and the sky (it doesn't take much to block the satellite signal). I can get perfect logging if I mount it on my helmet, but I won't be able to read it inflight (for checking speed or whatever). Or, I can mount it on the webbing of my harnas, but the logging will be spotty (pretty useless for postflight data analysis).It's charging now did you think about a "forward " mount like Jarno's camera for face views ? Like that you can have all data visible during the flight AND a good satellite receptionscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trackingderby 0 #35 April 5, 2006 tacke a look at www.trackingderby.com, if you have a GPS recorder you can try. Make diferent jumps with diferent, category, suits and angles. You will see what i am talking about. If you have a sujestion on the timing we use for Wing Sut. You are welcome to propose. i look foreward to see your scores. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #36 April 5, 2006 QuoteIf you juge a tracking race in between two altitudes, you have a glide ratio race This has more to do with the other thread on the TD but the two have kind of merged. What I have suggested is a way to even the playing field for those who cannot get 12.5 or 13.5K feet of altitude. I understand what you are saying about the two different types of races. You said the Software has a built in safety "hard deck" so people don't take it low, so in reality, you already have 2 known altitudes which a person can race the clock(105 seconds). What I am saying is that if you figure for whatever your SW imposed hard deck is and either 12.5 or 13.5 you have "X" amount of altitude that a person can compete in. For example, lets say the the SW impossed hard deck is 3000 feet. If a jumper exits at 13.5K feet, they have 10.5K feet to race the clock. If a jumper exits at 12.5K feet, they have 9.5K feet to race the clock. If a jumper exits at 10.5K feet, they have 7.5K feet to race the clock. There is an obvious unfair advantage there and the average person getting out at 10.5 is at a huge disadvantage if they try to use the alotted 105 seconds as they will more than likely be breaking the hard deck or your maximum vertical distance rules. Which brings up the question, what is the max vertical distance and the SW imposed "safety altitude threshold" that you mention on your web site? Like Matt(The111) said, what you have is horizontal speed skydiving ( Speed X time=distance). The way you have it now,for wingsuits, there is going to have to be either categories based on exit altitude or you will have to adjust the time so those getting out at 12.5/10.5K aren't at a disadvatge. It would be easier to figure for if you posted what the Max vertical distance and safety altitude threshold numbers are."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #37 April 6, 2006 QuoteIt's charging now did you think about a "forward " mount like Jarno's camera for face views ? Like that you can have all data visible during the flight AND a good satellite reception Damn... that was quick. Yes, I did think of the forward mount, however, the camera has lots of lenses to make stuff thats closeby still in focus. Our eyes don't, and you need to place the GPS about 10cm (4 inches) from your face to be able to focus on the display. I guess you can make a construction to place the GPS there, but do you really want this thing sticking out that far from your head? It would be very vulnerable there, I think. On the other hand, Jarno placed a camera there the whole jump, so I guess maybe it would work. I'll think about making a mount for it there. Cheers, Costyn.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #38 April 6, 2006 QuoteI'll think about making a mount for it If you're interested in making your own mount,let me know and I can point you to a good resource on how to do it."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #39 April 6, 2006 QuoteIf you're interested in making your own mount,let me know and I can point you to a good resource on how to do it. Oh yes please. I mean, I enjoy desiging and building stuff, but pointers and tips are always welcome of course. Why re-invent the wheel, I guess. Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #40 April 6, 2006 PM sent"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trackingderby 0 #41 April 6, 2006 Nice to see you into it now. The race is made for jumps around 13,5. Sorry for the one that don't have it, they are less DZ not going there. With all the Free Fly and RW population, most DZ spots hight. some times higher, that's why we have also a maximum vertical distance two. The safety limit is not far from "1000" meters, but we will keep it un-mentioned to make sure peoles are not playing with the limit. Pull when it is pull time. 2 minutes from 13,5 is challenging for beginers, but they won't stay beginers so long trying to have an efficient flight :) But again let's see what people performs.... For sure the group dives format need to be less than 2 minutes free fall time http://www.trackingderby.com/group.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #42 April 6, 2006 Claude, I replied to your last post in the Tracking derby thread so we don't hijack this ones topic anymore. Please see that thread for my reply to your last post."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #43 September 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteis it MAC friendly ? Yes, very! Actually the coolest app I have found for plotting and viewing tracks is FlightTrack (http://flighttrack.sf.net), and it is Mac only! You can view your flights in 3D from all angles and it calculates glide ratios between any 2 points. And you can load maps and elevation data in it too. Paralog is Java based, so it will run on Mac too. So will the TrackingDerby software. You will need to get a USB->Serial converter, like the Keyspan USB Serial interface, because there are no serial ports on most current Macs..Hi Costyn, I admit I am technically challenged... the program says : Check: that you have chosen the right type of GPS that the speed is the one set on the GPS that the GPS is powered on that the GPS is properly connected You might want to reduce the transfer speed. What can I do any idea ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #44 September 19, 2006 Well, a couple things: - Is the USB serial converter listed in the Serial Port list? (make sure you have the right port selected). - Is the interface in your GPS set to "Garmin" (and not 'NMEA' or something else?) - Is the mini-jack of the gps serial cable properly seated in the gps cradle? There shouldn't be any metal visible of the jack (which is what fucked me over in the beginning. you need to press pretty hard to get it in all the way). - Did you get the right drivers installed for your USB-serial device? That's all I can think of at the moment... I had a bit of trouble getting it to work in the beginning. So don't give up. Good luck! Cheers Costyn.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #45 September 20, 2006 thanks for that, will try again tonight. I remember there was some metal of the jack visible. Didnt look right, unplugged, replugged.. but couldn't get any further... scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #46 September 20, 2006 There's also the possibility of the solder coming undone in the crade. The jack-socket is attached to the printplate only by the solder points, and mine came loose. A friend had a proper soldering iron and fixed it for me. He also put some 2-component glue to fix it better to the printplate. It works nicely now. Conclusion: the design of the cradle is not that well thought out by Garmin.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
