Entanglements???

[Genn 0]

What's he 'general rule of thumb'?

Every situation is different. I'm asking the 'general rule'.

Thanks.

Edit: I voted the top person releases first.

[Gadget 0]

With an entanglement where the lower person is parked around the legs of the top person ,the situation whould get exciting if the top person would cut away first

If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes???
My logbook

[Genn 0]

When you say "parked", do you mean wrapped?

[faulknerwn 37]

Quote

With an entanglement where the lower person is parked around the legs of the top person ,the situation whould get exciting if the top person would cut away first

Sounds like you're talking about a wrap here - not an entanglement. If its a wrap, the bottom person would cut away first. In an entanglement, one person has passed through the other person's lines. Neither person generally has a landable canopy unlike a wrap, and if the bottom person cuts away first, he's likely to leave the top person without a landable main above him and be wrapped in the bottom guys lines.. If the top guy cuts away first, he may bounce lightly off the bottom guy but he can fall free and its safer for both involved.

[Gadget 0]

Yes i do mean wrapped

If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes???
My logbook

[relyon 0]

The general rule is the top person cuts away first in an entanglement and the lower person first in a wrap. I've been in one situation where the top half of my canopy was wrapped on one jumper and the bottom half entangled with another. Chink! As soon as I chopped they both came clear (then followed my gear down).

Bob

[Genn 0]

Yes, this is my belief as well.

Wrap= bottom
Entanglement-Top

However, there is a 'suggested' emergency procedure (see cross thread) that contradicts this "rule of thumb'...

My actually queastion was; Why would someone say the opposite?...I thought it was a typo...thus the discussion

[Genn 0]

Quote

Yes i do mean wrapped

If you couldn't clear it, then I think the bottom person cuts away.

I think it's very important to have the general emergency procedures of this topic to be well known to students. I think there is sufficient research and testing done on this topic to have one rule of thumb.

To those who voted that the bottom jumper should cutaway, please explain your reasoning...Thus the reason for this topic.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

This is basic first jump stuff and I am fascinated that anyone thinks there is a different way to to do things during "intentional" canopy relative work mishaps. Straight from my sylabus:

In a canopy collision (or a crw wrap) where one person (always the top person in my experience) still has a flying canopy, the following guidelines apply:

-above 2000 feet the person who lost his or her main and now is suspended by the other jumpers body or equipment will cutaway. The top jumper will then try to clear the gear in such a manner as it either releases or he has performed a controlability check and can land with the main wrapped around him.
- Between 1000 and 2000 feet the lower jumper with the collapsed main must decide to either cutaway (which I have done and recommend) or decide that the top jumper must ride them down under the one, inflated main. (I say there is a choice in the FJC because technically, below 2009 feet they should have accomplished any standard cutaway procedures).

-Below 1000 feet the top jumper has to ride the suspended jumper down if he or she still has a fully functioning main. (this because we teach no cutaways below 1000 feet. I have personally cutaway from about 900 feet on two occasions, but that was due to incredible stupidity on both occasions).

-in entanglements are different. Generally in a real entanglement neither canopy stays inflated and you end up in a spinning mess requiring both people to cutaway. Top person has priority in these cases because if the bottom person executes first, then the top person might be fatally engulfed in canopy, lines, or both. Communication is critical in these instances and quick action will save your life. Should this happen below 1000 feet, and there is nothing flying over your head that you can land, then both jumpers fire their reserves in an effort to get something landable over their heads prior to impact.


In my opinion as someone who has been skydiving for over 22 years and has been doing CRW since 1985 that there is really no difference in emergency procedures between a canopy wrap induced during CRW or by accidental canopy collision. This, assuming "standard" or real CRW canopies with dacron lines. HiperCRW and unintentional collisions/wraps with microline-equipped canopies add a great deal more danger due to the razor-like cutting abaility of the tiny line. My last CRW canopy entanglement was in 1991. It led to both of us chopping our double shit-ball at 900 feet. It was a very stupid, cocky mistake between me and a guy I had over 200 CRW jumps with. I never made the same mistake again, but this totally reinforced my basic understanding of who does what and when. I have only been in canopy formations as big as nine-way and have only chopped chopped from one wrap, but I have not seen any "modern" CRW dog perform emergency actions any differently in the time that I have been relegated to simple CRW during demos under StarTracs.

Chuck Blue
D-12501