Labor Day - Fastest Man Contest - Skydive Houston

[Levin 0]

strike again. i was informed that there is a rw only tsl meet at skydive dallas this weekend. freeflyers might ask why the hell I would stop it for that? Well, because several rw people and one crw dog think they can go faster in a stand than any lawndart. And since they are looking forward to almost proving it again this year i can't deny them the opportunity. So, this weekend it is cancelled again. I'll try and have a new date for this contest next week.

last year
1st place freeflyer Thomas McDow @ 292mph
2nd place bellyflyer John Rich @250mph in stand
Close to 20 contestants, mostly freeflyers.

Levin
vSCR #17
www.freeflyers.com

[Staso 0]

hey Amazon,

We plan to have one of the most likely 4 speed meets next year, here in the US. My home
dropzone is Jumptown (jumptown.com), in Orange, MA, 70 miles west of Boston. Since most
likely I'll be organizing the meet, I'll be pushing to have it at my home DZ. Currently we
discuss next year competition at Speed Skydving forum, located at speedskydiving.proboards19.com,
you are welcome to take a look and participate.

204 mph for the whole dive is pretty good, but it's not very good figure to base on. Sometimes
my average over 1 vertical km (the official way) is higher on the dive with 200-ish average then
on one with 240-ish average. But it definetely shows that you go pretty fast :)

Stan.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[Levin 0]

One benefit of having to re-schedule again is it will give me time to come up with more Pro-Tracks. Even though I personally am not that interested in speed skydiving, this thread has been very informative for me. I hope to have two Pro-Tracks for each contestant by the time the contest comes around. Which will likely be somewhere around start of October.

Levin
vSCS#3
www.freeflyers.com

[Staso 0]

so what do you measure ? maximum speed only ?

stan.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[Levin 0]

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so what do you measure ? maximum speed only ?

That's what Ramon did last year. Seemed like the logical thing to do and it seemed to work well. Speed skydiving hasn't caught on very well here in Texas. Last year at least half or more of the contestants tried it in a stand. Here there really isn't anyone super knowledgeable about speed skydiving nor does anyone really appear interested enough to make it their chosen discipline. But it does make a good contest and alot of fun. Cool prizes too

Since there is now a few more weeks before the contest I am going to try and increase the number of Pro-Tracks I have and follow the suggestions courage made on a previous post in this thread.

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One point to be made is that in Speed Skydiving, we never pay any attention to the maximum speedreading on the Pro-Tracks. The reason is that when travelling at freeflying/Speed Skydiving speeds, any transition, wobble, whatever, will cause the airflow around your body to affect the reading on the Pro-Track, and especially the maximumreading. To make it a fair discipline, we use the average between two hip-mounted Pro-Tracks. And if these Pro-Tracks show a difference of more than 30 kph (~19 mph) the jump is invalid, because you've been unstable at some point during the skydive. To win a competition where you're looking at the maximum reading is easy - just do a quick transition or two of any kind - but it doesn't mean you really went as fast as the Pro-Track says ;-)

If not, I'm sure the system Ramon and I used last year will work just as well this year. I suspect about 1/3 to 1/2 particpants will be belly fliers. 1/2 or more will try it in a stand. I can think of know one that I would suspect of trying to be dishonest. If a Pro-Track went crazy, everybody would know that a 400mph speed is b.s. and it would be thrown out uncontested. And at this moment the score keeper (me) doesn't remember how to fully work a Pro-Track. Probably see me still trying to get it figured out on a 5 minute call for the first load of the day.This contest is about lots of fun and lots of cool prizes.

here's a question for ya. from a 14,000' jump, what do you think the lowest altitude is that you can still expect to be at your maximum speed? Is that something that can be determined by using the Jump Track software? Would MSL change that altitude? If so what do you think the lowest "speed harddeck (lack of better term)" is at sea level?


Levin
vSCS#3
www.freeflyers.com

[Staso 0]

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here's a question for ya. from a 14,000' jump, what do you think the lowest altitude is that you can still expect to be at your maximum speed? Is that something that can be determined by using the Jump Track software? Would MSL change that altitude? If so what do you think the lowest "speed harddeck (lack of better term)" is at sea level?

i have my first warning altitude set at 5000 ft and go flat right away - no transitioning, no speed
bleeding. full, flat track. i slow down for about 10 (?) seconds and i pitch right after i hear my
second warning (3500 ft). at this moment i still travel at higher then usual speed. sometimes about
150 mph, sometimes even more. keeping going below 5000 ft is extremely foolish, so i'd say
5000 ft is my speed hard deck. speed may differ slightly at different DZ due to elevation, but
1 second hesitation before slowing down is much more significant.

i think we should merge at some point :)

stan.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[Levin 0]

***i have my first warning altitude set at 5000 ft and go flat right away - no transitioning, no speed
bleeding. full, flat track. i slow down for about 10 (?) seconds and i pitch right after i hear my
second warning (3500 ft). at this moment i still travel at higher then usual speed. sometimes about
150 mph, sometimes even more. keeping going below 5000 ft is extremely foolish, so i'd say
5000 ft is my speed hard deck. speed may differ slightly at different DZ due to elevation, but
1 second hesitation before slowing down is much more significant.

I have my "take a quick head count alarm set at 6500 and break-off also for 5k. This isn't quit what I meant. i got open a 100' off the ground on a base jump. It was the last one of my 3 jumps a year or so ago (I haven't quit base, just taken my time . So I totally already understand what you have just explained. What I'm wondering is at low altitude <15k agl at msl, at what altitude does the air become to thick for a maximum speed to be maintaned? Sorry for the confusion.

Levin
vSCS#3
www.freeflyers.com

[Staso 0]

at this point i'm not aware of terminal velocity for speed skydiving jumping from conventional altitude :)

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[Levin 0]

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at this point i'm not aware of terminal velocity for speed skydiving jumping from conventional altitude

would the Jump-Track software show this?

Levin
vSCR#17
www.freeflyers.com

[Staso 0]

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at this point i'm not aware of terminal velocity for speed skydiving jumping from conventional altitude

would the Jump-Track software show this?

Levin
vSCR#17
www.freeflyers.com

i think it does. there is no plateau, just peaks ...

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[Amazon 7]

I guess at this point I just need to get more comfortable with the software.. the readings on the Protrack I have show MAX speed AVG1 AVG2 and AVG speed which is an average of the two averages...

When I look at the numbers on Speedskyding.net I am not sure how they manage the whole process even after reading the rules.. where does the math come from or do thy take some kind of correlation OFF of the graph.

My top speed so far according to the Pro-Track it 253 MPH.... abut the average for the whole jump was just 204...

ON that jump I decided I will not try this again until I get two things.. a form fitting hooded jumpsuit (my hair was beating me to death on my neck) and a full face Havok helmet... the Z-1 Evo is reaching its design limitations when I look at the ground at that speed and it wants to lift off and the chin strap is saying no but trying to decapitate me...

Also the Sorz goggles are better than are the goggles with the two lenses.. one of them started to come out of its track in the plastic rim.....

Numbers and more numbers... my head hurts

Hey get Wendy to help out with the numbers Levin..... she is a rocket scientist....and close to you down there....

Amazon

[Staso 0]

from the manual .. see attached.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[Levin 0]

this thread reminded me a couple yrs ago there were 3 reserve failures in a short amount of time. Trying hard to remember. I think there was one each on a Raven, Dash-M, Dash-MZ(?). ZP topskin version. I think at least 2 were speed skydiving related. I'm pretty certain the Raven failed structurally during a very high speed deployment. What I am wondering is does the air get dense enough and is the change in density great enough to (guess all things being equal) make it impossible to obatin a higher max speed at 6000' than 8000'? If so then why not start slowing down 2000' higher since after 8k there really would be no more point. And if not, why not start slowing down the dive a 1000' earlier anyway. Per 1000' @ 300+mph, your freefall time is max 2.5 seconds. To an old schooler (asuming the discipline is old enough) i imagine that suggestion would sound silly and unneccasry. But on the other hand I am sure you see my point.

Levin
vSCS#3
www.freeflyers.com

[The111 1]

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What I am wondering is does the air get dense enough and is the change in density great enough to (guess all things being equal) make it impossible to obatin a higher max speed at 6000' than 8000'?

I am NOT a speed skydiver, but I read some stuff about it and seem to remember reading that you don't ever reach a terminal in that position. Actually the author tried to make it sound like there was no terminal, which is impossible... there is a terminal for any position, but I guess his point was no one has reached it yet it the amount of time they have. I'm guessing even with the density changes they are still accelerating through 8k... but like I said I'm GUESSING.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[JohnRich 4]

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...the speed of a very big style and accuracy guy... I know a girl that has gone faster than any one else in Houston >290...

Hi, Ramon! Are you calling me "big", as a fan of style and accuracy, or "big" as in physically huge? Okay, okay, I guess I'm guilty of a little of both. :-)

Thomas clued me in to this thread this weekend. At last year's speed dive contest, I did only one dive, achieving 250 mph, and that speed held 1st place until Thomas beat me on his fifth or sixth attempt. He had an excellent speed!

I spent a whole day a few years ago experimenting with how fast I could dive. I managed to get up to 330 mph that day, measured by "true air speed" on my ProTrack in a front thigh pocket. The downloaded graph of that dive is attached, for everyone's curiousity. The graph is kind of hard to read however, because when I reduced it down to acceptable size limits for posting here, it gets a bit grainy.

On the graph you can see where I hit kind of a "wall" at 210 mph and 9,500 feet, where my acceleration ended for about six seconds. Then I did "something" magical to punch on through and accelerated to my max speed of 330 mph. It was a very noticable period of re-accleration, where I could feel the speed building again. I'm still wondering what that "something" was that I did... But I've noticed this "wall" on all of these attempts; you reach a point where you start getting wobbly and can't seem to stay stable and break through to higher speeds.

And of course, popping out flat at this speed to slow down for deployment, really puts some strain on your arms. I began to understand how pilots ejecting from fighter jets can get "flail" injuries where the high speed air pulls their arms out of socket. Yech.

[JohnRich 4]

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2nd place bellyflyer John Rich @250mph in stand

Minor correction: I did my speed in a head-down dive.

I can do stand-ups, but I don't do that very often. Head down dives I am very familiar with, from diving to achieve airspeed for practicing a classic style series.

[Staso 0]

of course there is always terminal velocity for given body position and air density. provided
time is not limited. which is not the case for speed skydiving from regular (13.5 ft) altitude.
we keep going till it's time to slow down. i know that below 5 and 4 thousand feet i would
keep accelerating. also it's hard to maintain perfect body position, the whole dive is a fight
for stability. in perfect world one could just take ideal body position and keep it and the
most dense person will win.

stan.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[Staso 0]

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I spent a whole day a few years ago experimenting with how fast I could dive. I managed to get up to 330 mph that day, measured by "true air speed" on my ProTrack in a front thigh pocket. The downloaded graph of that dive is attached, for everyone's curiousity.

330 moh is mighty impressive i must say. but as it was already mentioned, there are couple of things
to keep in mind.

front thigh pocket doesn't seem to be very good place to put a protrack. legs can easily go in and out
of air flow which could result in speed spikes. back when protrackes were mounted on ankles, speeds
up to 600 mph were registred. mostly due to kicking :) and even when people swear they were stable
the whole dive usually it's not true.

lateral webbing now is considered to be the most "fair" place to put a protrack. since it's in the middle
of the body it will eliminate at least one type of oscillation spikes. and since we use 2 protracks and
average reading it should eliminate other as well,

even with protracks placed on laterals the readings could be very different from one side to another.
jumps with difference between one and another average speed more then 20 mph do not count
for competition. one of the guys in UK on one of this year world cup meets showed about 340 mph
on ne side and 280 (?) on another.

but anyway, in any case 330 mph indicates pretty high speed ...

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The graph is kind of hard to read however, because when I reduced it down to acceptable size limits for posting here, it gets a bit grainy.

GIF works pretty well for images which don't need more then 256 colors. can you try to get a better
one in GIF format and post it again ? or PM or email me ([email protected]), i'd like to
take a better look at it. and can you put speed measurement zone limist on the graph ?

and one more thing :) going flat right away from 300 moh dive is fun ! just keep arms along your
body and enjoy the Gs !!! :)

stan.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[The111 1]

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lateral webbing now is considered to be the most "fair" place to put a protrack.

Hey again Stan, I talked to you before about speed. Heh, when you just say speed it sounds like the drug. Anyway, that's funny that in the Pro-Track manual it says the ankle is the best spot. Guess they weren't thinking about speed though. What exactly do you mean by lateral webbing? Chest strap? I'm pretty bad at gear terminology. The only words I know are "chute" and "ripcord".

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Staso 0]

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Anyway, that's funny that in the Pro-Track manual it says the ankle is the best spot. Guess they weren't thinking about speed though. What exactly do you mean by lateral webbing? Chest strap? I'm pretty bad at gear terminology. The only words I know are "chute" and "ripcord".

L&B, manufacturers of Pro-Track and Pro-Dytter were one of the co-founders of speeds skydiving,
at the moment the manual was written ankle placement was considered the best. after several
years of competition it was found that it was far from the best. again, it's been years since speed
skydiving started and we don't have to start from the beginning again and seek for the bet
place to put a protrack or how to measure speed. i think we should use the experience accumulated
and play together.

lateral webbing is the piece of webbing that connects lower part of you rig's "backpack" to
your harness. it's in the area where you kidneys are :)

stan.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[JohnRich 4]

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front thigh pocket doesn't seem to be very good place to put a protrack. legs can easily go in and out of air flow which could result in speed spikes.

After reading the comments here about those spikes, I re-thought that. But I don't think that is what accounts for my 330 mph reading. For one thing, the graph confirmed what I felt in freefall, with an initial acceleration period, some wobbling, followed by regaining stability and more acceleration. So I don't think I imagined that. The other thing is that the graph shows a nice hyperbolic curve over a period of quite a few seconds, peaking at 330 mph. If the reading was from a wobble, I would think it would be a sharp spike covering only a second on the chart. So everything seems to be in order indicating it was real.

I did experiment with the location of the Protrack, going from my helmet, to my shoe, a pocket inside the chest of my jumpsuit, and finally, the thigh pocket. I have no idea what effect those locations have on readings. It would be nice to get about a dozen Protracks and just stuff them all over you in different locations, and then see what differences result between them. Would anyone like to loan me a dozen Protracks?

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going flat right away from 300 moh dive is fun ! just keep arms along your body and enjoy the Gs !!!

Yes, that's the conservative way to do it: tilt from your dive into a kind of style tuck, or cannonball position, and then slowly inch your arms out into the slipstream. But just popping flat suddenly is quite a rush too, feeling all those deceleration G's. It almost knocks the air out of your lungs.

[Staso 0]

once again, i don't wanna say that you were not going fast. :) you have to go fast to
get to 330 mph spike :)

> For one thing, the graph confirmed what I felt in freefall, with an initial acceleration
> period, some wobbling, followed by regaining stability and more acceleration. So I
> don't think I imagined that.

well, to tell the truth i think it's very subjective. very often it feels super fast and you get
all excited but then you get to the ground to find out that in fact it was pretty slow.and
it also happens other way around. my last 400 jumps were 99% speed dives and it's still
hard for me to tell right away how jump went.

> The other thing is that the graph shows a nice hyperbolic curve over a period of quite
> a few seconds, peaking at 330 mph.

[IMHO]

that actually would be a sign that that could've been a spike. usually when pro-track
goes from shadow back to air stream and finds itself a thousand feet lower then it thought
it will have to catch up for lost time and it would produce that nice hyperbolic curve to compensate.
since it lost that altitude and has no data for it it will aproximate it in nice smoth way resulting
in nice curves. that also explains speed going from 300 mph to negative (!) on descellerations.
i myself got down to 22 mph on the graph which i think far away from truth. other people
got negative speed and negative deployment altitudes.

[/IMHO]

again, i'm sure you were going fast. maye you even were going faster then 330 :) i'm just trying to
say that it's hard to be sure what the real speed was basing only on one protrack and the feelings.
at least two protrack should be used to compare the reading and preferrably placed somewhere where
they wouldn't go from and to the air stream.

for one thing, now speed skydiving community seems to settle down on how measure the speed
and so far we had more or less consistent results which we can use for competition.


stan.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum