Learning to transition to head down

[skymama 35]

I'm obssessed with going head down, and I'm having trouble. My sit and stand are good and stable, and I can go head down out the door, if someone is holding onto me. But, if I try to transition from a sit to head down, all hell breaks loose! I pull my arm and leg in on one side like people have told me, and I've held it for maybe two seconds, but then I lose it. Got any pointers for me?
Andrea
The brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all.

[AggieDave 6]

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I pull my arm and leg in on one side like people have told me

Are you cart-wheeling into headdown from a sit or stand? I've had better luck cart-wheeling into it instead of trying to flip into it. Easier for me to get stable, but that's probably just because I'm just now trying to learn it.
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[AggieDave 6]

Also, doing a cart-wheel, when learning, it was easier for me to not think about how to do it, just move my head in the direction and the body followed. Sort of like when you were doing AFF and the instructor told you to turn by looking where you wanted to go.
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[Zennie 0]

Yeah I've had better luck with cartwheels too.
Still flail a bit on the legs to try and get stabilized, but it seems to work best. Course you really need to learn both flips & cartwheels. Cartwheel keeps you facingthe same direction. A 1/2 flip will set you facing the opposite direction.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[skymama 35]

I am doing cartwheels, not flips. Could I be doing them too quickly, maybe?
Andrea
The brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all.

[AggieDave 6]

If you're moving your leg and arm to do them, you might be doing them too fast. Try the head-move thing, just drop your head to one of your shoulders, which will move your shoulders without thinking about it, that's how I learned, atleast.
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[Geoff 0]

I've been through this learning process this year, and this is what worked for me...
Pick a point on the Horizon, and keep looking at it during the cartwheel.
If it doesn't work (you lose the head-down), decide whether you are tending to fall on your back or your front. Video helps enormously here.
If you fall on your back (this is what happened to me), then pick a lower point (on the ground) to fix on. I guess if you're ending up on your front, then pick a point higher up in the sky (a bit of cloud or whatever.)
Worked for me, but took 5 or 6 jumps until I could transition consistently.
Hope it helps
geoff

[Zennie 0]

Oh I forgot to add that you'll need to know 1/2 flips to do over/unders later on as well.
And real good tip geoff, I'll have to try that next time. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[freeflir29 0]

It's very easy to "overamp" your transitions. The first thing you need to do upon going HD is relax. You are creating a lot of rotation energy when you transition and it has to be dissipated somehow. If you are stiff and try to "Control" it you'll get unstable and flip out. About 3/4 of the way through your trans put your arms at your sides and just go limp for about 1 or 2 seconds. This will get you falling down the column. Then put your arms and legs back out to control the fall rate. Also, during your transition make sure to bring both arms in. If you only bring the side in that you are spinning towards the opposite hand will produce too much rotation speed. Just use your feet to initiate the rotation. Above all....do lot's of solo's to practice and get a couple jumps in with Aviatrr and his camera. It will help you immensly!
"and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[freeflyguy 0]

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About 3/4 of the way through your trans put your arms at your sides and just go limp

Good advice.
It doesn't have to be a quick violent move. You can just pull your arms in, legs straight for a second, move your head the way you want to go, it will start to turn, then go big and wide with your legs, and leave your arms in. Relax don't bend your legs, and look at the horizon.

I like two ways for learning head down. If you can find somebody that is relatively good, get him to do this.
Shuttle cock you. That is you both launch. You fly with your arms and legs, You don't hold him. He will hold your jumpsuit, or harness, if you are comfortable with that, high grips. He can compensate for speed difference, so you don't roll over.
Before the jump. He is going to tell you he will push or pull you in one of three places, With a free hand.
Chest, stomach/hips, thighs.
If he pushes, push that area in, if he pulls, push that area out.
If it completely goes to crap, and he can't adjust you, that is ok too, because he should be able to tell you why. Most common is arching. Or de-arching too much, or...
There is so much that has to be lined up on your head. It is real hard solo to figure that out. But solo, the one big indicator is look at the horizon. Do this on 2 way or bigger too, but it is the one thing you can see with your eyes.
Oh, and practice, lots of it.
j

[airann 1]

over/unders =the freefly contest I was in, that is an Eagle. But that is with 2 people.
BTW: I was deadass last. My partner was the bigest dude on the dz. I couldnt have done any better if I didnt show up. But, I did get first place in girlz. Which is an award that never existed, Cuz I was the only one. Just so everyone knows - I never said I was any good. Disclaimer End.
This is all good advice listed above this post. I learned to snap the transition and relax or go limp in the aforementioned position. And it works, but do it quick. Practice on the ground a bunch first. Looks pretty weird to others but so does that RW stuff sometimes. Do it in front of a mirror till its real quick and you get to the stable and relaxed position real quick -almost without thinking. If my hands arent right, I dont use them. They are secondary to pushing out with your the outside of your legs anyway. Giant pants with drag help.
The transition is an important skill in that you get into a completely different flying position - yet you must not lose any altitude while doing it.
The transitions listed below in the book published in 1998, are valuable when transitioning and getting away from people zooming or corking or etc. But now, when we say Transition, we all know its the 1/2 cartwheel.
Transitions:
Weedeater, Front Loop, Back Loop, Layback transitons, Barrel Roll, Compass and Stag Stand Ups, T to a Track transition and Monster Swoop transition, are all covered in The Art of VRW, The Way of Freefly
AirAnn
BAWAHHH![/url] and click on Hey Jude!

[Zennie 0]

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Practice on the ground a bunch first

Just coorious... When you practice on the ground do you actually go into a handstand and try to get your body into the proper position?
As far as the Eagle/overunder thing goes. Now granted I'm a FF newbie, but I thought an Eagle was where one goes over and one goes under without switching orientations (such as two ppl in a sit, one going over the top and one underneath) and an overunder was where you switched orientations (one in a HD and one in a sit & both switch -- so you get a sort of rotation effect).
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[airann 1]

It is 2 people, Yeah, me and Booger ok? He a long time ago. Whew. Wish I would have had video. Neither Rook or I could catch him and that was .5 of a sec out the door. Hello?
See attached Photo of Useta be Orbit Punks. This is Sean And Thomas. Doing an Eagle.
Newbie or Dinasour, matters not. Terms are being make up every day now. Now we have skate terms surfacing and surfing terms. A hook turn is the same as a Slit S. Potato or Potatoe. AirAnn

BAWAHHH! and click on Hey Jude!

[airann 1]

Andrea- I forgot...
It could be worse, try doing this with a giant shark fin on top of your head.
I look like one of those damn bobble head dolls.
My bad habit now is holding my freakin helmet still -forget all the stuff I said. I clearly dont know what I am talking about - as usual. (my camera) LOL
Wait... Its a new position... its called the.. its called.....
The Inverted Headache
yeah, ... thats it...
AirAnn

BAWAHHH! and click on Hey Jude!

[skymama 35]

Thanks for all the help you all. Once again, this website rocks!
I can't wait to get to the dz on Sunday.
Andrea
The brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all.

[brits17 0]

i know you've heard much advice and stuff, but just 1 thing that helped me learn... i executed numerous full cartwheels (from sit to sit) and learned to nail those, then that helped trememdously in making smooth transitions from sit to head and vice-versa.
do what works for you and good luck this weekend! c ya!
Blue Skies,
Brittany S!
D-24752

[rgoper 0]

Andrea:
how'd it go? give us the goods! hope it went well!
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[skymama 35]

ok, here's my report...
I only got one jump in, because the winds started gusting to 25 mph, and that made me a little nervous. But, on my one jump, I did manage to go head down for a few seconds a couple times. Woohoo! The interesting part, was that I still couldn't do it by doing the sideways cartwheel. Then, I remembered you guys talking about the 1/2 forward flip, so I tried that, and I did it that way no problem! Now, why is that, I wonder?
Andrea
The brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all.

[FreeFlyFreaky 0]

Hey - I had to pipe in even though I haven't read the entire thread. It seems to me that you've completely jumped the gun. I.E. Darlin', you can't expect to learn transitions until you have a stable headdown. If you don't know what a headdown feels like it's going to be very tuff to flip into one and hold it. Unless you're doing solos trying transitions to headdown can be outright dangerous.
If you can only maintain headdown while someone is holding you and you cork as soon as they let go then you need to work on body position. In all likelyhood you're probably arching and are tense as all get out.
I would really suggest you jump with someone who will take you head down for the next 10-20 jumps until you can freefly the exit and do it yourself.
Next jump, find the horizon (mentioned above), relax and ride it. QUIT ARCHING! ---BREATH BREATH BREATH - LEGS LEGS LEGS - Think BIG LEGS! When you extend your arms do it with your palms down. (toward your feet) . Do it right now and then flip your palms up. Notice how you tend to arch this way? Notice how much more relaxing the palm down position is? Extend your arms with your palms down and your arms somewhat to the front and not the sides. BREATH BREATH BREATH - Relax - BIG LEGS! Do it Again!
Do this for as many times as you need until you can ride it the whole way by yourself. Hopefully less than 20. After you know what a headdown is supposed to feel like then I would work on transitions.
For the first 100 or so you will still be learning how to simply go straight down without sliding (nearly all of us backslide starting out).
At your DZ (Deland, isn't it?) I know Alejandro and Cisco and just met Jimmy on Thanksgiving day. These guys are great freefly coaches. Spend the bucks if you can on some coaching.
Just my $.02,
Good luck and don't give up....you can do it. It's frustrating as hell starting out but it is sooooo worth it...
WHIT
Skydive America Palm Beach - FREEFLY DZ