Tapeless acquisition

[DSE 3]

I've been getting quite a few PM's about tapeless acquisition and various formats, and thought it might be nice to get the discussion out on the table.
Tapeless benefits:
No capture time. Cards can be up to 10X over realtime currently, and getting faster. Cheap storage, renewable media. Easy/fast archive. No hunting for footage any longer, as keywords may be embedded in footage, including date, time, student name.

Tapeless caveats:
Requires computer for most efficient workflow. If you don't back up or archive properly, it's possible to lose it all, and with no tape, you have nothing to take off the shelf. Discipline will be required. An HDD system is a very good idea.

Some formats:
HDD (Hard Disk Drive, not to be confused with HD/High Definition) cannot be used in standard skydiving operations, normal HDD fails above 3000 meters/10K. Toshiba has some new drives rated to 18k-msl) but they're very rare and very expensive.

DVD-based systems-cannot be used in skydiving, as the laser can't track the burn with stability.

P2-based systems (Panasonic proprietary) So far, camcorders are too large for daily use for tandems and teams, but are a good option for independent film. Very costly.
Pros-Not too large, although the HVX camcorders are large. Reasonably lightweight
Cons-Expensive, slow Xfer from card to computer, some NLE's don't support the P2 format. Smallest format in the HD world, entry cost of around 7K.

XDCAM-HD/Blu-ray Just a decent lens alone will cost 20K in addition to the size.
Pro's-outstanding image
Cons-huge-forget it. Too damn big.

XDCAM EX- big camera, not for tandems, but for independent film...excellent. Largest raster format available at this time.
Pros-no 'typical' camcorder can generate a better image at this time.
Cons-other than cost in the 6k range, it's on the heavy side, but not by any means too large. About the same size as the P2 format cams.

Flash memory/memstick-least costly, small package. Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Samsung all offer cams.
Pros-very lightweight, very cheap, very similar to what most camera flyers are jumping today. Many models to choose from. Can be edited in standard SD analog editing systems found on DZ, but camera MUST be used for this process, no deck system can be utilized at this time.
Cons-Can't do firewire to firewire Xfers, a computer is needed to archive, and potentially to edit. All of these cams are AVCHD, which requires a reasonably fast computer. A 3 year old laptop is going to struggle with it. Some apps don't offer full support of AVCHD yet.

So...there is the overview.
What impact if any, will tapeless have on your future plans?
All are high-def. Canon does offer some cheapo standard def card cams, however.
What are your fears, worries, hopes, anticipations, demands for future camcorder decisions?
Discuss.

[velocityphoto 0]

I think i'll be going with the cx-7 this year ,instead of my hc-1 that i just picked up..Hc-1 mount from wes is going to cost over a grand for the flash still and video mount.
I can side mount the cx-7 for cheap. And i already have 1 side mount helmet set up.
I have hard drive space available and back up my files on a regular basis to dvd disk.

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[FreeflyChile 0]

I think my largest *current* worry for my next camera is mounting it. I have a PC-120 that was giving me error messages (though I guess I could see if it's just dirty and get a head cleaner) mounted in a rawa with the specially-made Pc-120 attached box. I loved the setup because the camera was protected nicely and fit snugly. If I switch cameras I essentially have to buy a new helmet. Also, I really like side-mounting the camera and I would like to see a good hi-def camera that could be side mounted.

Cost right now is an issue, but I don't expect it to be by the time I really *have* to replace my camera.

[johnboy 0]

I'm most likely going to pick up a CX-7 in the next few weeks. My early concern was the lack of a LANC port, but knowing there are D-link solutions on the way, this is no longer a concern; I really like my Cameye, and I'm too lazy to pick up a soldering iron and make something. The ridiculously small package is very appealing, and I need a new computer/editing solution anyway.

$0.02 depositied.

[peckerhead 0]

I have only had my HC3 for a year now and it still seems like a "new" camera to me. I jump it in a cookie box and it is stored in a padded case when not in use so it still looks brand new even after a year of jumping.

As much as I would like to go tapeless I just can't see buying a new camera right now when this one is doing the job. (And quite well I might add.) Tapes are cheap and easy and I like having the lanc.

As cheap as they are now I would probably buy another HC3 or HC5 as a back up before going tapeless. But most likely my next purchase will be a new lens for my still camera or a better wide angle for video.

[DSE 3]

Here is a nice option for the CX7 crowd. It'll allow you to dump sticks to disK without a 'puter.
I've just ordered one, hoping to find out it works well.

[monkycndo 0]

Quote

Here is a nice option for the CX7 crowd. It'll allow you to dump sticks to disK without a 'puter.
I've just ordered one, hoping to find out it works well.

This little baby may have just pushed me over to the CX7. Please give a review once you get it. I knew I liked you for a reason. I'll let you know once I figure out what it is.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[Trevor 0]

I really love the concept of this but the math is bothering me. It looks like you have to copy the entire memory stick at once (pushing the 'copy button'). I think 8GB is 8192MB. The transfer rate of this device is 2 to 2.5MB per second meaning it will take 55 to 68 minutes; not much of an improvement over realtime and taking a bite out of the 2 hour usable battery life.

This beast from sony gets released tomorrow, but it doesn't support video. Hopefully the next version of it will....sony is going to have to figure out a way for non-computer savvy people to archive video from memory stick cameras and this would be a start:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=101551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665248017

It would be great to have a device like the Mapower that would eliminate the need for a laptop at the DZ for swapping footage, but we need some faster transfer speeds.

I am sold on a side-mount CX-7 for my next camera and I am eager to see how we can make it easier for skydiving use.

[DSE 3]

You're right of course, if the Xfer speeds really are only 2.5MBps, it'll be slow. Michael Diz of Meritline tells me that this is 2 year old information, and that the new model is faster. The new model *does* use a SATA drive, and although I don't have the numbers...it's *supposed* to be faster.
i'm not going to order a SATA drive for it until I have the case, but very much looking forward to playing with the speeds. I won't use it much for skydiving as I have a monster desktop at the DZ anyway. I don't know the Xfer specs, but it sucks up a full 8GB stick in about 7 mins.

[sdsouthsask 0]

Which memory stick are you using? Reason I ask is there are numerous Sticks all with different specs:

the Sony Memory Stick ProDuo
the SanDisk Memory Stick Pro Duo
the SanDisk Ultra® II Memory Stick PRO Duo
the SanDisk Extreme III MS PRO Duo
the SanDisk Video HD Memory Stick PRO Duo

I am assuming that they all record fine in the CX7 but their transfer speed to the computer is going to be faster or slower.

[pattersd 0]

also, what capacity memory sticks have you used. I'm asking this because the CX7 documents say "Tested to support up to 4GB media capacity" does it work with the 8G memory sticks?

[DSE 3]

I'm using 8GB sticks, and ordered a 16GB a few weeks ago (they're not shipping yet).
8GB stick is no problem for the CX