4-way video - suits, tips, everything

[emallin 0]

Hi all,
I'm just about to get into 4-way camera flying and would like to hear tips, opinions or any comments from any serious 4-way camera fliers out there.

Most have of my jumps have been 4-way, so I've a good idea of what's required. I'm pretty tall, not a very fast faller and have never worn a camera suit.

I was hoping I might hear some advice on the following topics:

- What's the best suit? Full camera suit, D-wing, booties?
- Are booties a good idea for steep video?
- Is a D-wing too big if I don't fall very fast?
- What's a good camera lens. I have 0.6, but do I need somthing wider?
- What's the best exit, leading or trailing?

Any other tips would be really appreciated.

Thanks,
Eoin

[piisfish 135]

my best advice would be :
read Quade's articles on his website www.futurecam.com

this should answer most of your questions.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Icon134 0]

find a good mentor that can watch your videos... give pointers on exits, placement in the sky above the formation, deployment responsibilities, etc.

here are some things I've learned in the last year in regards to 4-way/RW video:

1. you need to be close (a sony 0.6 is fine for RW video... in fact you probably don't want any wider) but you will need to be 7-8 ft above and to the side of the formation...

hrm... I'll upload a video from outside of the formation that I shot a few weeks ago this evening (if I remember) of a very skilled 4-way videographer.

2. you want the sun behind you... it gives you better light, reduces the chance of getting glare, lens flair, etc.... and best of all it adds to your fun because you get to chase your shadow as it were...

3. flying 4-way video is work... your not just standing still a good team turning points quickly will generally be moving around a bit in the sky... the formations will changed shape they'll be long one second, then in a small box the next.

4. leading or trailing... it can be somewhat challenging to lead the group... unless the team has a very clear count and often that's not the case... fortunately although the video isn't as neat looking the the video can sometimes be as good on a trailing exit (remember you aren't really there to make them look "cool" your there to make sure they can count all the points.)

5. I am generally used to flying with booties on my belly so it made sense for me to put booties on my camera suit (I have a Bevsuit with her medium wings) I also just aquired a camera jacket with different materials so... for summer jumping I'll be able to jump in shorts. (if I so desire...) my RW camera suit is a relatively fast falling suit (it is an old ZP, RW suit with slick sleves, to which I've had bev add wings)

hrm... That's all I've got....

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[ltdiver 3]

Two of the best things I did when learning 4-way camera flying was to:

1) Counsel in person with a world class 4-way cameraflyer and

2) Watch LOTS of video of champion 4-way competitions.
You'll find a few variations but all in all very clean video. While others are looking at how the formations are engineered I'm watching the cameraflyer's techniques, angles, exits, etc.

If possible, have an experienced 4-way cameraflyer sit down and critique -your- video. Every time your team trains, if he/she's available. You'll find you'll learn loads each time you do this and build on your experience.

Keep a written log of your jumps. How the team exited. How -you- exited. Did it work? Was it judgeable? Then once you have that down...does it look pretty?

I -love- to watch the top team's at Nationals. Yes, for the points and such, but even more for the skill of the cameraflyer. It's not just sitting on top of a team and watching them whirl. A good cameraflyer dances -with- the team.
Right now, Lew's my hero. Get ahold of Fury's DVD and you'll see what I mean.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Icon134 0]

ok... as promised... proof that good 4-way video is lots of work...

http://www.scottgunshell.com/Vids/MysticRythms-Outside.wmv

Mike does a tremendous job keeping the team in full frame. he also has a lot more practice doing this then I do... (thus the choppy, bumpy nature of my footage.) unfortunately I don't have his footage to show you what it actually looks like from his perspective.

these are from two different jumps (I followed the team out, with their permission) and shot these videos on 2 seperate jumps.

Scott

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[freefallcrab 0]

My 0.02 English Pounds worth... I agree with all that has been said already and there is a LOT on this subject on DZ.com. Me, I got a Firefly one piece camera suit, excellent quality and highly recommended. I dont have booties (dont really think they are necessary for 4-way but maybe for tandems if you go down that route) and I got the biggest wings available. They have saved me on exit more than once and also deep in the burble when smaller wings would have caused embarrassment.

Pros and cons for the type of ext - going early can produce nice exit shots for the debrief (training only, NOT competition!) but risky - I have seen too many 'fooled ya' exit counts and going too early (can take valuable seconds to recover). Trailing exit - less risky and is independent of the team's count, but you can NJ in a competition if the video is looking across the grips while the team is on the hill. I try and go with them as the centre point of the 4-way leaves the aircraft - more risk of collision but just takes practice.

Anticipation and reaction are important IMHO - exits can go steep, shallow or funnel and you have to be prepared for that. Some exit formations are more prone to it than others.

I quite like the idea of keeping note of your exits like the previous poster suggested. I had not done that until now but regretted it last year in AAA competition when a particular exit was causing me problems. I will keep notes next season.

Good luck and enjoy!

Oh, that thing about your shadow on the team - my immediate reaction is "sh*t' when part of my brain (the 1% that is still functioning at this point) thinks of still photography when your shadow is BAD) and then I think 'COOL' and watch it dane over the team as they turn tricks... sorry points.

Use your wings Johnny....

[emallin 0]

Thanks for all the input and especially the video. While on the subject, does anyone know where I can find more external 4-way video footage which shows the cameraman at work? It's strange as I'm far more used to studying 4-way techniques.

I've consulted a world champion cameraman who's very much in favour of NO BOOTIES! He's tried both and hasn't found them to offer any benefits. I reckon I'd have better fallrate control without them too. Like the idea of keeping a log too, especially for all the different exits.

At that rate I'm probaby considering a two piece suit, with a medium wing. I don't think I'm a fast enough faller for anything bigger. Any opinions or recommendations on manufacturers and wing sizes?

Thanks again to everyone who replied.

Eoin

[dragon2 0]

Well I love my big ass wings, and I'm a featherweight. I've needed my wings on a few occasions Love the combo of big wings + a few kilos of lead.
I don't jump booties, mostly because they weren't on this suit when I bought it and former owner claims to add booties would ruin the suit. Oh well.

Just be careful with any kind of bigger wings, with the gap between body and wing, with the big burble etc. im used to big wings (I fly a lot of wingsuit) but they can cause problems.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[ltdiver 3]

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While on the subject, does anyone know where I can find more external 4-way video footage which shows the cameraman at work?

Occasionally a 2nd cameraflyer will show the primary cameraflyer on our U.S. National's DVD. If they do it will be of the top teams of each division. Other than that I've not seen any.

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I've consulted a world champion cameraman who's very much in favour of NO BOOTIES! He's tried both and hasn't found them to offer any benefits.

My first camerasuit didn't have booties. I had them added later, as I wanted instant control on the hill if I needed to track -up- and -over- the team on exit. Without booties you might find it hard to do this 'correction'. I view wings the same way. You might get away with a freefly suit with 4-way exits....most of the time, but it's when the 'Uh-Oh' happens that you wish you had them. Booties, like wings, give you more range. And if you don't want to use them (booties) on a particular jump you can always tuck them up inside.

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Any opinions or recommendations on manufacturers and wing sizes?

I like BevSuits myself. I had a custom wing built for it by Shirley Pelland. My wing goes from my waist to the middle of my forearm. I'm 5'10" and 145 lbs. With my team I wear 13# of lead as well.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Icon134 0]

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While on the subject, does anyone know where I can find more external 4-way video footage which shows the cameraman at work?

Occasionally a 2nd cameraflyer will show the primary cameraflyer on our U.S. National's DVD. If they do it will be of the top teams of each division. Other than that I've not seen any.

I imagine the video is substantially better too...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...