Main Canopy Suggestions for Camera?

[murrays 0]

Here's the background to my questions...I have 2100+ skydives, starting in 1980. I pretty much took about 8-9 years off from 1992 to 2001, making very few skydives. In the last year I've managed to get in 50+ jumps and am feeling pretty decent and comfortable in the air. I made my first ZP jumps this year on a Stiletto 135 that I acquired over the winter. (I weigh about 190 out the door.) Landing it is fine but I've had a few exciting openings with it, the cause of which I am still investigating. I am planning on jumping with a video camera this spring...just for inside video doing 4-way, etc. I used to jump a still camera only from time to time in the past so having the extra weight, etc. isn't unfamiliar. What is very new to me are canopies that can spin up, and get very ugly on opening while jumping a camera.

I have been reading and paying attention to posts regarding using a more docile canopy if you jump camera. I know that a lot of people do camera and jump small wings. I am looking for a better margin of safety due to the fact that I have two small sons aged 3 and 5, I'm an old bastard now (50) and I don't want to add more risk to skydiving than I have to.

So, I am wondering which canopy out there offers the best combination of the following for camera jumping:

1 - Soft openings
2 - On heading openings
3 - Good glide
4 - Good swoops
5 - Landings that can be shut down without being a sprinter (I've lost a step or two)
6 - Turbulence resistance

Is it the Triathlon? Spectre? Lotus? Samurai? Sabre2? Stiletto? or what? (The airlocks on the Lotus and Samurai intrigue me)

I'd appreciate any advice you'd care to share.

Thanks, blue skies, and Merry Christmas,

Murray

[garywainwright 0]

I think with your experience its a case of demoing as many as you can. I did a lot of jumps with a stiletto 135 and camera (220 - 230lbs out the door) and never had a problem.
I like the Spectre but don't have many jumps on one - a very experienced friend has one and generally likes it but tells me he doesn't like it when its bumpy - it doesn't handle it as well as his stiletto he says.
Try and demo a sabre 2. I haven't heard a bad word about them yet.
Have fun!!

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[PhreeZone 15]

I've only jumped about 18 different canopies of different sizes so there is a lot out there that I've never jumped. I like canopies with long toggle strokes, canopies I can swoop, canopies that open nice and I can video their openings, and canopies that don't scare me if I happen to get a tad distracted in flight.

I suspect that your not fully flying the opening and just before the opening and thats why the Stiletto is giving you such weird openings. Any elliptical is going to require a lot more attention during the opening phase then any of the older canopies and the more tapered the canopy, the faster it will go bad on you.

The Spectre is a very nice canopy, I did'nt have a camera yet when i put 180 jumps on my Spectre. Nice snivle, predictible, nice landings, not too swoopy, great camera jumpers canopy.

Cobalt would be my recomendation on a swooping canopy at the loadings your talking about. For the most part its a great opener, unless you open in a totally weird body position it will be nice and on heading. I've thrown from some weird positions, sitting, standing, head down track, and still recovering stability after flips on tandem openings and I only had one spining opening.

I jumped the Samuari and loved how it flew, but its openings are firm, but not hard. I demoed them at WFFC and the packers showed me a lot of tricks that helped but Brian will customize any canopy you order from him to have what ever type of opening you want so he will make it right no matter what. I jump a Jedei now since I could'nt afford a Samuari when I wanted a new canopy. Very fast canopies that I love (Check out the front page for info on discounted Big Air canopies if your in instructor )

The Lotus is a very nice wing, very similar to the Sabre2 in flight, a bit more rigid and a bit different riser pressures. My impression was it was just a bit slower in full flight, but it dives better on front risers then the Sabre2. If Brian ever finishes up his airlocked 7 cell it would be the perfect canopy for you.

My experience with Sabre2's is less then great. I later found out PD retired the demo I had since so many people complained it was opening hard on them. Nice flight and able to get good swoops.

I dislike the Stiletto since it just seems too twitchy in my opinion and way too twitchy with the brakes set. Some like this, others don't.

Tris are old technology that has been replaced by the Spectre IMO.

Honestly since you are just getting back in to the sport really, I'd take it slow and easy. If you are wanting to swoop, up size to a 150 at least to learn on. Learn to do if you don't already know how to, riser carves starting with a 10 degree and slowing working up and mastering everything to 180's. At just 50 jumps current 1.4 is a fairly heavy loading. I've done 250 last year alone, 458 total and finally got my self up to a 1.42 loading. Swooping is not for everyone and people tend to live longer, healthier jumping careers if they don't swoop.

If my reasons for not getting hurt were the same as yours, I'd grab a Spectre or Lotus 170 or Spectre 150 and stay away from the swooping. Grabing a less agressive tapered canopy like those meet your requirement almost perfectly. Let us know what you decide.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jimmytavino 16]

PD Spectre.....
Great openings,,, nice and square, never a twist,,,,,
flies very well,,, handles good in brakes,,,nice landings, Mine is loaded at 1:1......I too,, am getting on in years,,, I leave the downsizing and the big time wingloading to the "mountain dew" generation....
In shooting tandems, and AFF,, I am pulling high anyway,,(last out, long spots etc.), which is good.... Don't go bustin' opening altitude though,,, the occasional
900 foot snivel,,,, can be a drag,, if ya' pull at 2 grand...
(you say you would be shootin' 4 way from inside,,,so don't go hummin' past a sensible opening altitude) but that should be the plan,,,, regardless of your main canopy.skydive softly, skydive often, skydive with friends

[Brianflian 0]

You can't go wrong with an Icarus non cross braced canopy (Crossfire or Safire). Out of almost 2000 jumps on Safires and Crossfires, I have had 2 swift (not hard) openings. They are never twitchy on opening.

I have lost a brake on opening on many occasion, had the occasional off heading opening, line twists, all the usual stuff you would expect out of 2k jumps. Never had an icarus dive or do anything scary on opening.

I recently jumped a Safire 129 loaded at about 1.6. The brakes were not stowed during packing. The opening was comfortable.

On the other hand, I had to cut a spectre 170 away when it opened with line twists, started diving, and got worse.

And one last thing: I had a really hard opening once. But I rubbed Preparation H on it every day for 3 weeks, and it softened up.

Brian

[JJohnson 0]

The Sprectre seems to be a real popular choice with camera flyers. I have not played on one other than one jump and I was not impressed with the flare that much.
I do love my Cobalt. I've never been slammed yet. I have had line twists, my own fault. By pulling down on a riser the canopy straightened out and flew level, letting me kick out with ease. I had a camera on at the time.
I would also suggest the Samurai. The openings are fast, but soft. Hard to explain, you'd have to jump it.
JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[Zlew 0]

With modern camera set ups, it's not as critical to have a really soft canopy. If you are using mini DV cameras, and or using a side mount set up the forces of your openning are not nearly what they used to be on your head. My batrack with side mount pc5 and canon rebel xs on top weighs 6 lbs loaded, and most of the weight is low on my head. As long as it's not a canopy that smacks you all the time you will be ok. I have 2 stilettos, and they have always treated me well. If you don't like 7 cells...don't get one just for camera. Get a canopy that you like to fly, and with the right set up you will be fine. I love the 9 cell eliptical platform, and there is no way you could ever talk me into anything less based on opennings and camera. Things just are not like they used to be. For the most part you don't see 10 to 15 lb. cameras with all of the weight on top any more.

Z

[motherhucker 0]

The Samurai gets my vote, Hands down. Meets all the criteria you asked for, plus super easy to pack, very predictable, and the openings are super neck friendly.
.02

[flyboy62000 0]

Your stiletto will be just fine for jumping a camera. I have about 300 camera jumps on my stiletto 120. Always opens soft and on heading. Just watch yours through the opening and if it starts to go to one side or the other correct with risers or harness input. Most current generation canopies will be fine for camera flying as they open soft and reliably. My personal opinion is not to go too small with your canopy, especially elliptical because of the chance of serious spinning line twists turning into an entanglement with the camera. I also like the Spectre for camera if you're looking for a 7 cell. Of the things your asking are important I would put them in this order of importance.

Soft Openings
On Heading (consistent) openings
Good Glide (tandems get out last and videographers go lower than the tandem, long spots are common)
The rest I'd say are just matters of personal preference.

Blue Skies,
Adam

[murrays 0]

I'd like to thank everybody for taking the time to give me some suggestions and share their experiences with me. You gave me lots to think about and it is much appreciated.

I think that I will first work on getting my Stiletto opening better. The openings aren't hard, it is a matter of getting it to open without spinning. The canopy belonged to a friend of mine that died of non-jumping causes and I know absolutely nothing of its history. I just got the line charts from PD and am going to check out the trim, etc. and pay very close attention to my body position at pull time. I will also try to compensate for any one-sided openings during the opening as this seems to be quite important. If I still am having squirelly openings I will send it in to them for an inspection.

Your posts made me realize that I like a canopy that is fast and flattens out on final after some easy front riser inputs. I don't think I'd like to get a 7-cell like the Spectre just yet. As I don't intend on jumping with anything other than a sidemounted PC-1 I don't think I will need the extra-soft openings of a Spectre....although if I could use one to do CRW after RW I might consider one sooner. My fellow dinosaurs are all jumping old 7 cells and I get quite envious when I see them put together a biplane after an rw jump.

I appreciate the concern and words of caution, particularly from Phree, about swooping and using these new smaller canopies. Going from a PD150 (F111) to a Stiletto 135 is a 10% downsize and a two generation jump in canopy design and it has my full attention. The young guys on the dz have been very good about helping me make this transition without pranging myself. I have no intention of doing 270 front riser swoops like they do...I don't have the gonads for that.

I sure wish we had jumpable weather up here right now as I would love to demo a Samurai while Big Air has their deal on. I think that my decision tree is Stiletto and if it doesn't work - Samurai or Lotus - Spectre.

Thanks again guys,

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey