Big Ways; Flying to my quadrant/radial

[Larhsw 1]

I've just started jumping bigger formations and I'm absolutely fascinated by the dynamics of making it all come together and how difficult it is...!

Can anyone give me a few tips on the "basics" on issues like flying to my quadrant/radial without interfering with other traffic, optimal approach angles in the stadium, how far out I should wait, etc, etc? I'm going to a few big way camps this summer, but really want to "read up" as much as I can to be mentally better prepared.

Any safety related tips and hints are also greatly appreciated!

Blue Skies

[elightle 8]

If you are qualified to attend a big-way camp, you should already know how to exit without going rear end over tea kettle; and you should definitely know how to be safe. You can get a lot of advice in these forums but please don't take it as the gospel unless it comes from experienced big-way jumpers/organizers like Kate Cooper, Tony Domenico, Dan BC, etc.

My suggestion is to perfect flying on small formations and do some 4-way. Practice tracking on each and every skydive. Learn how to stay with a tracking leader. The fastest (or steepest) track isn't always best. I wrote an article on tracking titled "Get Away From Me!" for Parachutist a couple years ago.

Have fun at the camps!

[Larhsw 1]

Thanks for the input! I believe I know how to be safe and also how to fly OK, but "driving" in very different traffic can often be confusing and bring people into unexpected situations. And if I can pick up a few good points here, I thought it would be well worth the read to avoid the unexpeckted as much as possible...

I found a link to the publication below which might be just what I'm looking for, but the publication/web pages seems to be "out of service".

http://www.divemaker.com/bw/bigway.html

Anyone knows this book?

[ltdiver 3]

Send Jan Meyer and e-mail. That's who's web page you are referencing.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[BillyVance 34]

Without going into great detail, as much as possible, organizers set up dive flows so that you're docking on the person who exited the plane in front of you so you're in essence, following your wing-man in. This isn't true for the first out that has to start a line from a trail plane, and for some important anchor slots away from the person in front of you.

You don't want to pass anyone or cross anyone else's paths on the way down.

Sometimes the position you're in on exit, relative to the formation, prevents you from making a beeline to your slot because your slot is 1/4 or half way around the formation. Fly around well outside of the building formation until you're in the quadrant you're assigned to, say 50 feet out and 50 feet up or a 45 degree angle and ease your way in for a soft tension-free dock.

There are loads of information out there with much more details and covers more "what if" situations than I can say here.

My heydey of big ways were in the late 90's so it's been a while but I do own a couple of 100 way records.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[elightle 8]

Guess I was a little too critical of jumpers offering pointers. Billy Vance had some good ones.

Remember to have a "dive plan" for each skydive. Get to your radial as directly and smoothly as possible so you're not interfering with the approaches of other jumpers. In most cases, the organizer has minimized traffic problems. At big-way camps, you should get to practice sheepdogging and following a tracking leader. At home, you can do tracking dives, and on a fun load once in a while ask if you can go last and exit a couple seconds late. It'll be similar to diving late on a bigger way. Pay attention to how you change direction in your dive. Never dive "at" the formation or the person you're following! That way, if they pull up before you do, you have your own clean air for stopping and making adjustments.

That's my two-cents worth.

Blue Skies and Big Blots!

[jpforget 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=58250;guest=48096408

[mdrejhon 8]

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=58250;guest=48096408

jpforget, thank you very much -- I need that list when I go to the Perris P3 bigway camp. Although I realize procedures will be different, the tips are helpful to keep in mind. Study material for the plane ride for sure...

As a deaf individual, who often need assistance from teammates (using a notepad in my jumpsuit pocket), I need all the help I can get. Biggest I've done is 30-way with TK Hayes and several 20-ways (including some 2-point and 3-point) with various load organizers, but this will be the biggest yet for me.

Going to SVNH for 1.5 hours of tunnel 3 and 4 way. After that trip, I'll actually have more tunnel time than skydiving freefall time. It's hard getting current after a winter layover, with Otter dropzones not yet operating nearby, only Cessna. As a compromise I'm doing small RW as well as delayed exit practice as well (3 second delay) even from a Cessna to dive and dock, as if I'm last to dock on a 20-way... Lots of stuff happening now. Will be exciting!

[Larhsw 1]

Thanks! Just what I was looking for! You guys rule

javascript:%20addTag(':)')

[philly51 0]

One of the best pieces of advice (from Dan BC) was to exit, get stable, and stop for a second. Find your radial and TAKE YOUR TIME. Most of the people going low is not fall rate, but over amping to the formation.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!"

[kallend 1,625]

Quote

One of the best pieces of advice (from Dan BC) was to exit, get stable, and stop for a second. Find your radial and TAKE YOUR TIME. Most of the people going low is not fall rate, but over amping to the formation.

Or as Jerry Bird would say, "If you don't want to be low, don't go there".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kkeenan 13]

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...please don't take it as the gospel unless it comes from experienced big-way jumpers/organizers like Kate Cooper, Tony Domenico, Dan BC, etc...

I guess it's hard to imagine that anything useful could come from anyone else other than the folks you mention, but here are some things that this humble jumper has learned. NOTE: I am not a big-way organizer.

1. Do your prep work well ahead of the jump. Find your position on the diagram, and make sure you know your position with regard to line of flight, etc. Make sure you're ready for the fall rate dictated by your position, the formation design, etc. Dress for Success.

2. In the dirt dive, make sure that you have your radial landmarks identified in the center of the formation. If you know who you are behind in the base (4-way, 8-way, etc.), then you will be able to identify your radial from the very moment the base leaves the plane. Also have landmarks outward from that person toward your position to serve as terminal area guidance.

3. Know where to look for the base when you exit. It may not always be exactly where you expect, but you should have a good idea of where to look.

4. Pick up your base landmark dude as soon as you spot the base. This gives you maximum time to evaluate where you are with respect to the base and your to radial. The building base should be your main focus from here on. Scan briefly for traffic, but don't lose focus from the base.

5. Move to intercept your radial as soon as possible after exit. You should try to intercept the radial as far out from the formation as possible. Get to the point that will give you the longest possible straight-in approach. Most collisions occur because of folks crossing radials close-in. Get on your radial a good ways out, and then watch out for converging traffic.

6. If you're properly lined up on your base person, you should see the formation building like the dirt dive. Pick up your next layers of landmarks as they dock. If your fellow flyers are heads-up, you should see the folks around you moving together toward your docking area.

7. Hopefully, the person that you're docking on should be somewhere in front of you most of this time. Try to follow them as close as you feel is prudent. Remember to maintain the "stadium" effect. You should stay about 2 ft. above the person ahead of you as you both approach. This allows you to see over them. Keep the formation as your main visual focus so that you can fine-tune your fall rate in the terminal area. Look at the base and at your clone on the opposite side of the formation. Once you're in your slot, take a moment to settle your fall rate before taking grips. Don't look anywhere but at the base. People around you will be taking grips as they are ready. Your job is to fly as part of the formation, and that can only be done by keying off the base.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[elightle 8]

Kevin,
Great tips and well stated!

[jpforget 0]

It may (or may not...) look like this:

http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Relative_Work/BigWay4Fun_549.html

Jump #1: Late Diver from Lead plane (Tail gate)
Jump #2: Floater from 1st Left trail plane & staged break off
Jump #3: Diver from 4th Right Trail plane & break off seen from the ground
Jump #4: Diver from 1st Left Trail plane

[elightle 8]

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=58250;guest=48096408

Excellent information! Thanks for sharing.
Ed

[dragon2 0]

Hot tip: don't do this (at 0:18 into the video)

This is the 8way base for the bigways (~30) we plan this year at our DZ, the same video guy as in this video got hit on his neck/head the last time they tried a 30way, broke his videocamera (HC1). They're starting smaller now

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Larhsw 1]

Thanks for sharing, guys! Great help and greatly appreciated!

Blues Skies

[billvon 2,400]

>flying to my quadrant/radial without interfering with other traffic,
>optimal approach angles in the stadium, how far out I should wait, etc,
>etc?

A few suggestions:

1) Get tunnel/RW coaching. Nothing helps bigway flyers more than 4-way skills, and there are some specific tunnel skills (fallrate maintenance, go-low recovery, stability drills) that are very worth learning.

2) Most jumpers start out thinking of bigways as a series of discrete steps (get out, find the base, go to your radial, start your approach etc) but in reality it's a continuous process from exit to breakoff. So start off with the discrete process to simplify things, but keep in mind that eventually the goal is continuity.

3) Awareness is key. You should not only know who's in the base and who you are docking on, but also your neighbors. This allows you to approach with them without cutting people off.

4) Dress for success. You should have suits that range from a skintight nylon 4-way suit to a big floppy cotton suit - and having weights, sleeves or a sweatshirt doesn't hurt either. In my experience booties are worthwhile on most bigways.