Keying the point

[jumper03 0]

I've noticed on videos of the top teams points are keyed (if at all) by flashing a hand. We do it by one person nodding.

Is there an advantage to one over the other?

Scars remind us that the past is real

[FeFe 0]

flash key is easier to see and easier to judge

[rehmwa 2]

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flash key is easier to see and easier to judge

so is one personal doing a barrel roll - but sometimes that's a tiny bit distracting

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jumper03 0]

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flash key is easier to see and easier to judge

so is one personal doing a barrel roll - but sometimes that's a tiny bit distracting

so which is better for a no-flying-trying-to-kill-each-other-rookie team - one person nodding or the flash?

why? I'm thinking but can't see a reason - other than that the level we are at, flashing a point might make us backslide out of the formation

Scars remind us that the past is real

[FeFe 0]

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sometimes that's a tiny bit distracting

... but fun

[skyminxx 0]

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flash key is easier to see and easier to judge

so is one personal doing a barrel roll - but sometimes that's a tiny bit distracting

bwahahahahah!! You made a funny......!

Its funny Rehm.. I said that you would be the one to post the long detailed answer and all we got was a joke!

Steven: pm sent

You are led through your lifetime by the inner learning creature, the playful spiritual being that is your real self.-Richard Bach

[rehmwa 2]

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so which is better for a no-flying-trying-to-kill-each-other-rookie team - one person nodding or the flash?

Sorry I was flip before - serious hat on

(answering the question - the nod, since you are concerned about the flash, do what's comfortable. You will move to the flash, it's easier and better for the judges, but wait until you guys get still. the barrelroll is right out for now.....)

But really - If you are worried about a motion like a nod vs a flash affecting your stillness, then try this instead:

- In the formation, everybody get full eye contact and push your centerpoints to the center (take off the tension or even go a little bit positive even) - big eyes means you all let go.
- Here's the important bit - pause for a second and look at each other while off grips (a full second - it will seem longer).
- Only then move to the next point don't take grips.
- Stop - eyeball each other again. Only then take grips.

Try a simple 2 point dive (try Meeker/Satellite where everyone moves just a little bit) and do this. Once it's easy and boring, then you've really accomplished something good. You can then take shorter pauses before and after moving, but take the conscious pause. As you get better, you can even turn a bit faster, but pause and everybody gets on and off grips at the same time (i.e., fast people wait for the slow people before they dare touch someone)

Right now it's all about how clean you can get it. That's the path to faster. Wondering about big keys is likely more an indicator that communication improvement is a good goal for you guys. Good eye contact will do loads more for clean keying than any style of flash you use.

The road to getting faster (I'm told) is to first learn stillness while falling. (notice how 'quiet' the top team are when they move - if 'quiet' doesn't click something, then just note how in control and precise they are.) If you can't hold quietly still, you won't be able to start and stop moves any better. Once you have that stillness, then you can get on the path to learn precision in your moves. Precision first - speed and power will follow later.

I bet there will be a lot of good advice soon on this one from a lot better skydivers than me, but that's my opinion.

As for flashing, take your key person (normally IC) Have him do a two way with a someone that falls straight down and he can practice different flashes with the other guy as base - it doesn't take long to learn how to flash big without drifting. (flash in, flash out, flash left, flash right...)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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I said that you would be the one to post the long detailed answer

look above - I wrote it while you were posting the short one

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AMax 0]

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why? I'm thinking but can't see a reason - other than that the level we are at, flashing a point might make us backslide out of the formation

Flashing is not only used as a key but also to show complete grip separation to the judges – that’s why the whole team flashes, not only a person who gives a key.

At your lever there are more important things than flashing but why not learn this skill from the only beginning?

There are three types of flashes: 1) brining both arms in 2) both arm out 3) combination of 1 and 2 (one arm in, one arm out).

As you pick up the speed, poor flashes (or no flashes) may cause problems with infringements (busts). In addition, poor flashes indicate that the flyer is not confident or is not on the top of the game.

[jumper03 0]

Thanks Bill!

I think our weekends agenda is shaping up

Scars remind us that the past is real

[rehmwa 2]

You'll do fine. I'm jealous and really jonesn for some jumps. Instead they are making snow here.....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RedassSkychic 0]

As has been said, flashing is good because it shows grips are broken. It is important for everyone to flash, not just the person who is keying. You want to try to do this close to the same time, because everyone must be broken before anyone grips for the next point.

As to the key, I've found that a nod and flash at the same time works really well - its easy for everyone to see, including the judges. Its also easy to do, just takes a little coordination. The person who's keying should be your strongest (or one of) flyers and should be able to do things with their hands w/out moving.

Please take this with a grain of salt as I have very limited 4-way experience

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[nitrox100 0]

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The person who's keying should be your strongest (or one of) flyers and should be able to do things with their hands w/out moving.

The person doing the key will change from formation to formation. The inside center has most of the keys in the average continuity plan but only because they usually are in a position to see if everyone is on. Yet despite this I think the outside center usual has to have more flying skill based on the amount of movement they have.

Some formations can't be keyed by the inside center, Look at a monopod. There is no way that the IC can guarantee that the OC has a controlling grip on the point in order to key and besides he can't let go. I don't care how much the point cheats, they will not see a head nod from the OC or IC. But before the OC can key the monopod he has to know that the grip between the tail and OC is built. This can be from a shake or a guarantee that the IC will not take the OC until the IC and tail have completed their grip. See how quickly it gets complicated? The important thing is to have a plan and talk about the keys during the dirt dive and during the creeping.

Back to flash vs. nod. I think a nod is okay for a boogie group trying to do pick-up 4-way. If you are serious about competing you have to flash. Consider the hammer>hammer...is there any way the tail is going to see a nod? Doubtful, but they will see a big ass flash with bright gloves.

As for backsliding during a key. That is a problem with many new inexperienced teams. Their skydiving has a pulse or breathing movement. In time you learn that on the key you should be driving in to the center. Any wasted movement costs points. Keep it tight.

JMO