Jumping in a 4 way with people who're better than you

[el_chester 4]

I'm starting to jump with teammates who average 3 times as many jumps as I have. Needless to say, it shows. Why would they chose me? Well, there's not that many jumpers in Mexico, and most people are going straight for freeflying after student status.

So, I am learning a lot, profiting a lot from my teammates, but also worried about slowing them down. They say they don't care too much, but it's obvious who's picking the last grips on every point, and who's just not flying as clean as the other 3 team members.

I'd like to get up to speed as fast as possible. Short of spending coached time in a windtunnel (something that will happen in a couple of weeks), do you have any tips that, as obvious as they may seem, might help me be a bit faster?

--
Be careful giving advice. Wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it.

[BikerBabe 0]

One thing that I think helps new 4-way jumpers the most is learning the dive pool.

I know it's sort of a Catch-22, in that you need to have seen the formations before you can know them, but knowing in general where you're supposed to be in each formation will help you tremendously.

Print out a dive pool (you can find one here: http://www.omniskore.com/ipc_pool_menu.htm) then ask one of your more experienced teammates to sit down with you and explain where you go in each one. Don't worry about block technique yet, you're just looking for pictures.

If you have access to the Airspeed Mindmaps CD-ROM or one of the other DVDs (Majik or the Golden Knights), try to watch it as much as possible. Also, the Airspeed articles that are linked at the top of this page are a great resource.

That way the next time you plan a skydive, you will at least be familiar with the formations and your slot.

Good luck!

ETA: These may not make your body move faster, but it will help your mind move faster during the skydive, which DOES make a difference, trust me!

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[daveb 1]

Don't worry about the jump number difference, and accept what they are telling you that your speed doesn't matter to them that much. Good teammates will work with you to make you a better jumper (I've had that my entire jump career). They didn't choose you because you were the last available RW type; I've met you (Texas State Record this year), you're a humble, hungry and approachable jumper, the characteristics that people want in a teammate.

What will help you in the air is more prep time on the ground. Don't overdo it, but spend a bit more time on the creepers to really learn the angles and pictures. Find a method of memorizing the points that works for you, names, numbers/letters, or even raw grips. In the meantime, study the dive pool to learn the names of the formations and which grips you should have.

Let go of being last on grips. Feeling rushed/hurried is a sure way to brainlock and fly sloppy. Breathe normally during the dive, and take a few deep ones prior to exit. Mentally review/rehearse the dive on the plane, and smile while you do so (try it, you'll be pleasantly surprised).

Enjoy the windtunnel!

[rehmwa 2]

1 - Count yourself lucky. You were picked for your attitude and how well you mix with the team. Not just as a ringer. That's a great way to build a team.

2 - After the tunnel camp, you might just be surprised how much better you are.

3 - There is little difference between a jumper with 100 and 300 jumps. It'll even out very fast. Likely within the first few practice weekends after the tunnel. You'll see.

4 - Last on grips = you aren't the problem where busts are concerned -

That said, being the new guy can be great. Don't argue, listen a lot, learn the dive pool. If you are the last on grips, request tail position, it'll teach you awareness and patience and flashing and lurking close and using your knees - and it's a fun slot.

Our team brought on a new guy this year. We invested in his attitude and obvious potential. Not how he skydived at the time. We did a tunnel camp prior to the season, he looked really bad at first. By the end of the camp, he was solid. By the end of the season we were scoring team highs (this team is in it's 3rd year and we've not had consistency in teammates yet.). Next year we are able to repeat with the same lineup and I wouldn't trade him for any active jumper on our DZ at this point.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[oiseau60 0]

what is important is attitude. someone with the right attitude will work hard to get there and will be a better skydiver, and make the team stronger. I feel problems come from the attitude on the ground first.

so count yourself lucky to have found those three other jumpers, skydive your ass off, work hard to get better, and enjoy it.

my 2 cents

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

They didn't choose you because you were the last available RW type; I've met you (Texas State Record this year), you're a humble, hungry and approachable jumper, the characteristics that people want in a teammate.

That's the key Chester. He is right. You are the type ofguy that says he wants to do something and then does it. Keep up the good additude that you have and you will go far.

Dom

[bliston 0]

Last year I was in a similar situation and ended up on a pickup team with Robby Spencer, who got bronze at a world meet. Never having trained with a team before, I can definitely relate to how you are feeling. As tail, which is where I assume they put you, I was often last on 1. because I was learning, and 2. because tail is typically the last on anyway.

Besides learning the dive pool, (learning everything by numbers and letters helped me), and doing tunnel work to improve you individual skills I suggest these things:

- focus on where your clone is (the point guy if you are tail) and try to read where the next formation will build based on where he/she is moving. Just focusing on your next grips with put you behind the power curve.

- think of your primary responsibility as to fly to your correct slot and your second job as actually picking up grips. Often times just getting the grips will put you of balance or out of position for your next move.

- If you are off balance, after the key comes get balanced before you make you next move. It will take discipline but it is WAY faster than making a shit move immediately after the key.

- Hold yourself to a specific grip and key plan (my team calls this "doing the steps"). After you are in your slot you should be picking up grips by looking at each grip you pick up and pick them up in a specific order (preferably outside in - so you are not looking in for a grip, then looking out for a grip, and then looking back for the key. Lastly, after you have all your grips, focus soley on giving your eyes to whom ever you have to and look at the specific hand that will be keying the point. If you follow this method you will spend less time fumbling for grips and get a quicker jump on the next move (assuming you know the next point and exactly what you need to do to get to your next slot.

-Think about being light on grips. By lightly touch the grips you will not put your teammates off balance and also will be forced to keep your own balance.

I absolutely agree with everyone who voiced that speed and jump numbers are way down the importance list of being a good teammate, but home these "mental" suggestions will help you ramp up your awareness so it's your only your speed and flying skill that hold you back.

Lastly, don't be hard on yourself. Learning to be a good 4-way competitor takes many years. Give yourself credit for the little things you are doing right and build off of those.

Best of luck!

Ben Liston
Mass Defiance

Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website


sticks!

[el_chester 4]

Thanks everybody for your replies they are VERY helpful.

Keep them coming!

--
Be careful giving advice. Wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it.

[flyangel2 2]

Great advise from Andi, know the formatons. I had pictures of the formations cut out and taped up all over my house when I was on a four way team.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[sparrella 0]

el chester

I got two great tips recently, one from Craig Girard, and one from a teammate.

1. Make up a mantra with the names of the formations and block moves. Say that mantra over and over to yourself. it will give you confidence that you know the jump. If you add a cadence or substitute your own names, it may be more meaningful.

For example, "Meeker--Open--Cat--Spin--Meeker...

2. Try incopporating anticipation into your brain dive. As you visualize the jump, where do you hesitate between points? That is a problem transition and you need to apply some extra braintrons to it.

The last piece of advice I would give is to share your concerns with your teammates. If they aren't responsive, try again. After that, they aren't worth your time. Skydiving is about people.

Good luck.

The greatest enemy of the truth is not a lie, the greatest enemy of the truth is a myth.

[RippedCord 0]

Quote

I'm starting to jump with teammates who average 3 times as many jumps as I have. Needless to say, it shows. Why would they chose me? ...

Because you have big boobies?

AMDG