Swooping and its direction

[johnny1488 1]

While I understand people wanting to get swooping into a bigger market for sponsors and whatnot, I wonder how realistic we are being.

I just found out nationals are going to be held in Wildwood NJ Labor day weekend. Jumps are going to be out of a helicopter which will undoubtedly make them more expensive. One hotel called that still had room is charging $175 a night. This is a 3 day event with one weather day.

Should swooping be pushed out into the public like this? I understand everyone wants good exposure for our sport but here is an event that should be for pros and up and comers alike. With the cost between 5-600 plus travel and hotels not counting lost wages for a weekend when a lot of jumpers make their money, this is a tough nut to swallow. Could we have had it at a DZ instead? With less cost for jumps and less to stay for the time needed, we could attract a lot more jumpers who might not otherwise do it.

I just see vast differences between the skydiving nationals and th CP side of nationals. How do people who already compete feel as opposed to people who might want to compete?

First and foremost I thought the uspa nationals were supposed to revolve around the jumpers, not possible sponsors and the public.

And how big is swooping going to get in the big picture? Is the olympics ever going to adopt a sport needing our type of air support? What sponsors are going to sink money into a sport that cant be directly marketed to the public? If anything I think groundlaunching has the only shot because we aren't relying on planes. But even then you cant go groundlaunching like you can go buy a snowboard or skis or a skateboard. The dangers in our sports, no matter what people think is possible in training are much more than in other "extreme" sports.

And take all my info with a grain of salt cause even though I heard all this from a reliable source, it has not been announced.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[sarge 0]

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understand people wanting to get swooping into a bigger market for sponsors and whatnot

A few years back when the split occurred and PST was a fledgling new brand, I am on record here stating my opinion at that time of the endeavor . I was not an advocate of the concept to say the least. Since then I have paid close attention to Jim Slaton and his ambitions, we have talked about market development and investments. I no longer have the same opinions I maintained in the early days.

Nobody has done anything more to promote the prominence and respectability of swooping more than JS. I don't even know anymore how many DZ's have ponds now, or are using their ponds, that didn't three or four years ago. There are real money prizes now and the elite can now afford to take time off their jobs for the chance at cash prizes.

My issue was that when it (PST) began the field of elites was limited and rules imposed made it more exclusive, excluding new up-n-comers. I see the logic now, fewer people have been killing themselves competing because of the imposed qualifying requirements, ergo, bringing a more respectable appearance to the discipline.

Have no doubt, PST is is a commercial operation, so is NASCAR and monster truck competition etc... the cost of admission is extraodinary. But look at the good boys-n-girls in the olympics now hoping to win those gold medal passes into career product endorsements etc... The Olympics have been exploited for capatilastic venture why not swooping.

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I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!!

[johnny1488 1]

But I am not talking about PST, I am talking about the USPA nationals.

And yes I think there should be money for competitors. We gave a away a good chunk of change at the Ranch in the past 10 years to swoopers without having to go to Mexico or other exotic locations. And we did it all from within skydiving. No Pepsi or Mcdonalds money here.

The money that is out there now can not carry a person through their training to get to that point. It eases the pain a bit but thats all. And I know competitors would like more, but are big sponsors going to give it to us? And is it worth alienating people who might otherwise compete or want to in the future?

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[sarge 0]

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No Pepsi or Mcdonalds money here

I don't know, if what your asking is if USPA is selling us out, that could seem apparent, so I guess I might agreee. Its just that over the years all I've ever seen is this guy or that girl trying to make a living out of this sport. Maybe its a generational thing? I could accuse the USPA of being a profiteer, but the museum and new office aside, I think they're just trying to survive like the rest of us.

I just don't get why someone should feel they deserve a sponsor to finance their training anyway. No doubt some of our most accomplished skydivers have family who are dzo's and what-not: no brainer. Damn if my dad owned a dz and I could jump all I wanted for free, train with Omar etc for free... I have no doubt I would be a world champion too. My time for being envious has passed, Janet Lynn never had anybody sponsor her training...she never won a gold medal either, and you know, she is still a pure and decent person because of it. Point out a skygod you could say that about!
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I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!!

[frost 1]

If swooping gets exploited for capitalistic venture - GREAT!! But i dont think it will. Although swooping IS the most wuffo friendly event in skydiving, unfortunately, the market is just not big enough for someone like Coke or Chase to get interested in sponsoring the athletes...

AFAIK - Go Fast is the ONLY MAJOR sponsor of "extreme" athletes of all types. Other businesses in skydiving sponsor skydivers too, of course. But how much can a new olympic athlete or a tennis player sponsored by Coke make a year? I dont know, but i'd guess it's in the 6 figures or more. How much does a PD Factory or Icarus Canopies sponsored skydiver make? If i had to guess, i'd say nothing... or close to it. The companies in skydiving business are just not in the most profitable business... We all know how hard it is to make a living skydiving.

As someone has said it here before - swooping is expensive. Even more so then regular skydiving - and we all know the costs associated with getting into the sport. There are those who can afford to buy two-three matching rigs as soon as they start jumping and make 500-700 jumps a year. And there are those that make their living off the DZ who cant. But it seems that most people find a way to keep jumping. (and then there is ME - someone who made 500 jumps last season while laid off and on unemployment, right Johnny?)

Sarge, I agree that Jim Slaton has done a LOT for promoting and developing swooping into what it is today. He was there at the right time, in the right place and had the right mindset to get things rolling. But i dont at all think that his way is the only way. Does there have to be a monopoly in the swoop events? Cant we have TWO independent events/swooping authorities? Not only can we - there SHOULD be. If swooping competitions are to become a business, then like in any business there have to be alternatives for people to chose from.

All it takes is a will to do it. I know someone who organized a DAMN good swooping event last year, with not much (if any) prior organizing experience. The event was as good as any of the last years, the prize money was great and it was FUN. That man had a will to do it, wasnt afraid of failing and he did it. A thousand mile journey starts with the first step.

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[johnny1488 1]

I dont think USPA is selling us out, I just think without knowing it they are falling in line with the trend of trying to get swooping "big".

There is plenty of room for big events, but I feel the USPA nationals should be something a bit more accessable to all. And by accessable I mean run so that as many people as can or would want to will compete.

And thanks Mike for the kind words. You keep collecting those checks and I'll keep learning to play poker.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[diablopilot 2]

Well I'd sugest you voice your complaint to the USPA. And maybe SDAZ, since they didn't bid on the CP portion of the event.

As for the cost to you? Try a Motel 6. Found one cheap already. And the jumps? Well last time I did a swoop comp out of the helo they'll be using, it was about $15 a jump. Not to shabby if you ask me.

The sport is expensive and I for one am pleased with the fact we'll be drawing the attention of the public. It's the only way we'll survive, to get more interest in skydiving.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[marks 0]

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Well I'd sugest you voice your complaint to the USPA. And maybe SDAZ, since they didn't bid on the CP portion of the event.

As for the cost to you? Try a Motel 6. Found one cheap already. And the jumps? Well last time I did a swoop comp out of the helo they'll be using, it was about $15 a jump. Not to shabby if you ask me.

The sport is expensive and I for one am pleased with the fact we'll be drawing the attention of the public. It's the only way we'll survive, to get more interest in skydiving.

I will have to second this.

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[johnny1488 1]

I will for sure be talking to a national director to see his thoughts on USPAs decision.

As for the $15 jumps, thats great if thats what it is. I was told in the neighborhood of $550 for the 9 jump comp, which if it is that works out to be over $60 a jump with the regestration ect included.

And I dont think swooping is the only thing that can fill a plane with tandems.

I am for getting the public interested in jumping. But I dont think it needs to pass higher costs onto people who train and want to compete in what might be their only comp a year.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[marks 0]

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I was told in the neighborhood of $550 for the 9 jump comp

probably close to that, alot of our prize money comes from other competitors. so the entrance fee is there.

[KillerKimmy 0]

Do any other USPA national events have prizes?

[marks 0]

not sure, but if every team or competitor chipped in im sure they could.

[diablopilot 2]

USPA Nationals has not has prize money in the past.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I just found out nationals are going to be held in Wildwood NJ Labor day weekend.

I was at the 2004 Wildwood PST/Beach Boogie (not as a competitor but as a fun jumper) and I had a blast jumping over the ocean, jumping with some cool Crosskeys peeps and getting to swoop the pond when the pros weren't swooping it. It was an ultra cool place to jump and if I can afford it, I'd like to return this year. But I'm waiting for the 2006 CPC and PST/ProAm schedule to be released since my pockets aren't as deep as they once were and my travel options may be limited. But it is an ultra cool venue to be jumping at with tons of curious whuffos walking the boardwalk.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Glassguy 0]

Get informed before you rant to much! Check out a post from Free fall adventures telling you all about whats going down with event OFICIALLY! Look under swooping, willdwood nationals or something. They are working on getting local sponsurs and coperate sponsurs to help with the cost of jumps, so we hope to see jumps around $20 we'll see if they can pull it down to$15 like they had in other events. There is going to be accomidations available at little or no expense! Check it out its going to be a good step to letting the public see what we do and get people into it, even just as spectator!

[johnny1488 1]

Thanks for the update, and I think I was far from ranting.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome