Front Riser Dive

[YISkyDive 0]

Hey guys, im jumping a Triathlon 210, and today i was working on high altitude front riser dives. At 12,000 feet when i pulled on the front riser (left, right, both) it didnt dive at all. It began to mush and i couldnt find the sweet spot at all. Last week i did 2 or 3 at 3,000 feet, but still very slushy. My exit weight it 230, so i dont have the world's weakest or highest wingloading, and naturally a 7 cell is pretty docile, so i'm just trying to figure out if thats the nature of this canopy, or can it actually be put into a dive/ swoop like affect (at high alititude + 1000 feet)

Thanks.

Dave

[AggieDave 6]

I'm guessing that you were on a student canopy.

You really need to talk to your instructors before taking ANY advice you get here as fact!

I bet you were deflecting the tail with the brake lines, try it with the toggle released from your hands (do NOT do this low!!!!).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[YISkyDive 0]

I was thinking the same thing, i was watching the tail, and i maybe having that problem. I own the triathlon, its loaded at 1.10, which is pretty decent loading for a student. I have, on this praticluar canopy about 10 jumps. I'm fully against low manuvers at my current learning stage, im just trying to shoot for a little bit more ofa high performance turn up high.

[AggieDave 6]

Also, do you have dive loops on your risers? That makes life easier for front riser manuevers, you don't *have* to have them, but it helps.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Spizzzarko 0]

I jumped a TRI 190 for awhile and I would get the same problem. The one I was jumping had crw lineset on it, so it would just buck around when the fronts where pulled down. If your steering lines are short than you could be getting deflection in the tail when pulling on the fronts. This could cancel the effects of the fronts.

[cvfd1399 0]

Interesting thought I will have to check that on my next jump. I have trim tabs instead of dive loops tho.

[YISkyDive 0]

Yah, thats my problem. I did some testing with my canopy, 7 jumps to be exact. And i watched it fly; it's pretty much braked. I have zero slack in the lines. If i realase the toggle, and pull on the dive loop, it works alright, i can get the canopy to stay in the dive, but if i am holding the toggle it just mushes around.

The question is, is it safe to extend the line another 2 inches? My flare is respectibale, but not great. I'll stand up every landing, pretty much, but the added line would deflect the flare another few inches, correct? The rigger on the dropzone, and another instructor felt it would help, but from my understanding, OEM lines on Triathlon actually have the canopy braked, stock. So i dont know how this adds or changes the control characteristcs of flight.

[Nullified 0]

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The rigger on the dropzone, and another instructor felt it would help, but from my understanding, OEM lines on Triathlon actually have the canopy braked, stock. So i dont know how this adds or changes the control characteristcs of flight.

I've had to lengthen the control lines on my canopies (2.5 inches on my Lightning and 3.5 inches with my Sabre2) to be able to fully use my front risers, and have had no negative consequences with regard to flaring. I don't know the Tri, so I wouldn't advise you regarding that.

However, have you considered going with dive blocks instead of loops?

I use blocks on the risers for both of my canopies. I have them positioned so that I can grab them less than an inch below the links / Slinks and it offers me a greater range than with loops, as well as pretty much eliminating any possibility of missing them or getting a finger snagged.
Also, I prefer the blocks because I feel that I'm more directly coupled with the risers and I can 'feel' more of what's happening.

Everyone prefers different things, and I'm not dissin' loops, just thought I'd share my feelings with you

Stay safe,
Mike

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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However, have you considered going with dive blocks instead of loops?

I highly, highly, highly recommend against doing that. Dive loops allow the pilot to keep the toggle securely positioned over some fingers while using the others for the dive loop. This SIGNIFICANTLY lessens the chance of dropping a toggle as opposed to a dive block which requires the whole hand to be used.

Case in point, I almost dropped a toggle this weekend for the first time, if I had not had the toggle secured by at least one finger the results would have been disasterous.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Nullified 0]

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I highly, highly, highly recommend against doing that. Dive loops allow the pilot to keep the toggle securely positioned over some fingers while using the others for the dive loop.

Depending upon how you're approaching the grip, I can see how this could be a problem.

When I grab my front riser(s), my hands are fully through my toggles, and releasing the blocks requires only the most minor movement of my fingers. At no point are any of my fingers at more than a 90 degree angle to the palms of my hands, less in fact. And, my fingers are curling downward, acting a hooks on my toggles.

When I'm using my CReW setup with the big-ass toggles, I'm actually through the toggles up to my wrist with the control lines above the toggles routed between my middle and index fingers.

I'm not arguing that the possibility of what you pointed out happening isn't valid...it sure as hell is...just that there is a 'correct' way to approach this technique.

Thanks for pointing that out
Stay safe,
Mike

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

[YISkyDive 0]

Thanks for all the tips guys, due to my low jump number of 30, i am in no hurry to bring front riser to the deck. I am eighteen, and into intense and fun situations, but not just yet on the risers. i have a personal commit ment of at least 250 - 300 skydives before even exploring risers and landings. Although , ill def keep everything that was said in mind.

I had the lines extened today, and it actually helped a great deal. The canopy is much faster, and much more responsivce. The front rise dive also is extreme, and can be held a supringly long distance. I watched my altimeter, and i was able to keep the canopy in a dive for about 700 feet. Not horridly fast dive, but still pretty impressive from what i was doing earlier.

The only issue i ran acrossed is on my third jump with the new lines, the canopy began to do a slow turn to the left, which is not that wonderful. i couldnt figure out if i was seated wrong in my harness, or if i could have potentially had a ling strech. o thats gonna be tomorrows adventure. Discovering that issue. But otherwise, thanks again for all your imput guys.