WayneRATS 0 #1 August 14, 2003 things to learn how to learn them what not to learn i'm looking at a "study guide" if you will to learning to swoop in the same way a warp program was produced.. what should people be learning and how? cheers------------------------ Can You Ere Me Now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivegirl 0 #2 August 14, 2003 I found this paper by Bryan Burke helpful.Pink Mafia Sis #26 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayneRATS 0 #3 August 14, 2003 ooooooooooo some bed time reading there ------------------------ Can You Ere Me Now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 August 14, 2003 Unfortunately, there are several things in Bryan Burke's piece, also found HERE in its more complete form, that is a little questionable from a traditional aerodynamic stand point. The use of the term "apparent wind" for instance come from sailing, but in the context of flight the proper term would be "relative wind". Still, his work is the basis and text of some very well known canopy control classes including the Perris Evolution Canopy Flight School and it's well worth the read.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayneRATS 0 #5 August 14, 2003 i've attended chris lynches canopy class wingtips.. that was about advanced canopy control but was absent during the swooping bit the dynamics and learning swoop landings are my main interest.. as flying in deep brakes holding off toggle turning, stall recovery stall turning etc i've practiced the hell out of there arn't many swoopers at my local dz to instruct, there all too busy i'm not looking to do fantastic 9000000 jump wonder stuff just yet. i'm happy to learn progressivly but as well as doing my fs1 i want to do more canopy stuff.. as i love my canopy time (might as well get your moneys worth)------------------------ Can You Ere Me Now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 August 15, 2003 I know where you're coming from, I've been working on high-performance landings for the past nearly 600 jumps...obviously still working on it, since I'm not even close to being on the PST. Something that I found helpful was to go to the library and get some books on aircraft flight, the dynamics of flight, basic aerospace engineering stuff, actually. It helped me learn why my canopy does what it does, how it does what it does and so on. Reading material on basic aircraft flight helped a lot too, with good explainations about stalls, dynamic stalls, etc. Also, something that has helped me out a lot, is doing altitude hop-n-pops, flying your canopy from 10+k often helps give you a good feel for what your canopy is doing (even though it will be slightly different as you get closer to the ground, air density, etc). Beyond that, getting good canopy coaching has helped me out a LOT. Good luck, please be safe.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayneRATS 0 #7 August 15, 2003 don't laugh i was an air cadet for many years so aircraft aerodynamics arn't alien i'll put it in simpler terms to the swoopers talk me through a swoop approach.. what.. when.. and why ------------------------ Can You Ere Me Now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #8 August 15, 2003 things to learn : Don't hit the ground. how to learn them : Listen when people tell you you're going to hurt yourself. what not to learn : Hitting the ground. All jokes aside I can only talk you through things that work for me. There are PLENTY more knowledgeable swoopers out there so hopefully they'll shed light on the issue. Before even talking about the swoop, I believe the success of a swoop is almost entirely dependent on the setup of the approach. If you set up early you're high, if late, you're low. Before I jump each day I walk out to the landing area and visualize my entire approach. I set myself an altitude to leave my holding area and begin my approach with "waypoints" along the way where I expect to be and at what altitude. I don't almost my entire approach in brakes. If things are going well I continue the approach and if my altitude is low I hang on brakes a little more, if high I'll decrease my brakes to lose altitude. When doing my turn I do a 270 front riser turn, smoothly and slowly. Tough part about this is that the riser pressure can get quite heavy through the final 90 of the turn. The reason I use a 270 over a 180 is that I find it easier to compensate for a turn started too high, because I do it slowly I can speed it up if I find myself lower than I wanted. I do the first 90 nice and slowly and and constantly evaluating my position over the ground so I can compensate as necessary during the final 180 of the turn. Now, I am in NO WAY suggesting that 270's are a good starting point. Instead I recommend that you are able to smoothly fly and land your canopy consistently, predictably(i.e in a pattern) and accurately before even attempting to swoop. Once you can do that I suggest starting on double fronts and learning those well. Once you have that down I'd start introducing a gradual turn to the double front approach increasing it over time as you become consistent with the approach to where you feel comfortable (be that a 90, 180, 270, whatever). Things to look out for (besides the obvious)...other canopies. I find we all get fixated on our target at some point. Try to look around you constantly, it's easy to focus on the ground when doing these approaches and not see canopies around you. Know WHEN TO ABORT an approach (traffic, or sometimes if you don't feel good about it...don't do it). A good swooper/pilot knows when to say no. Canopy choice is also important. I longer diving canopy will give you a greater period of time to correct errors, but if turned too low will be deadly. A shorter diving canopy may appear to be safer as you can turn it lower (I don't recommend this type personally) but it will give you less chance of getting out of a blown approach because you are lower to the ground and have less time to correct the error. Something to remember, anyone can unintentionally give you bad information. There are a lot of canopy myths out there. I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend taking a canopy class by Scott Miller or Team Extreme, etc - they are all very knowledgeable and the classes can only make you a safer pilot. Hope this helps get you started. Ask questions, ask often, be safe. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkeyKam 0 #9 August 15, 2003 Brian Germain does canopy flight and control seminars, which cover everything from the terminology used in canopy and wing design to concepts in parachute aerodynamics and swooping. He recently wrote a quick article on swooping (a little note about his thoughts on fine tuning the swoop for maximum power): http://www.bigairsportz.com/article.php?filename=swoop-thoughts.php We're working on a full dictation of one of his seminars, which will be posted on the Big Air web site soon. Regardless, be careful. Swoop safely and blue skies! Andy "I drank what?" --Sophocles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #10 August 15, 2003 I did Wyatt Drewes canopy course; highly recommended. I believe he's on "[email protected]". - Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #11 August 20, 2003 Clicky Swoop Thoughts My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayneRATS 0 #12 August 20, 2003 .. but i've already done a canopy flight seminar.... why do i have to go to someone elses abroad?------------------------ Can You Ere Me Now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
