garywainwright 0 #1 October 31, 2002 I jump a xaos 21 and have heard everyone rave about their openings. Mine is pretty bad! I get twists about 25% of the time and have had 3 chops in 400 jumps. I used to jump a stiletto and had twists about 5 times in 1400 jumps and never chopped it. What am I doing wrong? (If i chop again our CCI may ground the canopy!)http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #2 October 31, 2002 Are the twists above or below the slider? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #3 October 31, 2002 Below. It tends to be trying to open off heading - the twists will then develop the other way! I think I'm overcorrecting but I'm interested to see what other people think.http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #4 October 31, 2002 Below means that it is probably line stows as the bag is turning in the slipstream. Is yours a 3 grommet bag - what type of bungees are you using. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #5 October 31, 2002 Its a 2 grommett bag. My first 2 cutaways were in the 1st 20 jumps(!) using regular bungees. I then switched to tube stoes and haven't had to cutaway until 2 weeks ago. I put about 2" thro the stoe and leave about 18" after the last stoehttp://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #6 October 31, 2002 Also I don't think its the bag turning as it initially opens on heading - then veers one way - then the twists develop the other way!http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #7 October 31, 2002 Try splitting the lines (left & right) between the mouth lock grommets (using tight tube stows) putting a good 3-4 inches of line through. You will be best with microline bungees for the rest - keep the lines short and pull the bungee towards the middle with no more than an inch of line through the stow. Ideally they should be in line with the grommets - you will have more stows but the bag wont be see-sawing as much. Leave a minimum of 18" (I leave 24"- 30") after the last stow to give the bag some momentum before the lines start to unstow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #8 October 31, 2002 Picked up a 2 good tips for this one. 1) When packing, fold the last stabiliser around it's respective lines to keep them separate. 2) Difficult to describe properly but as the canopy is deploying, bring your hands between the risers from behind and slap them outwards - seems to get the canopy to snap back on heading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #9 October 31, 2002 Almost forgot! I set my brakes just after landing and make sure that the lines are running up the inside of the risers (ie the toggle is pushed into it's keeper with the lines running up the inside/middle from the ring to the canopy). Check to make sure that your brake lines are sitting above your risers when they have been packed. If a brake line is sat below the riser, there is chance that it will catch on the corner of your reserve tray - often the cause of a spinning mal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #10 October 31, 2002 Try to not steer through the opening. Look at the horizon and keeps you hips level. You are pulling the canopy back on heading just by keeping your hips level. If you were to sit in a swing set and turned your self 90 degrees, then took your feet off the ground, you would swing back to your original "heading". Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #11 October 31, 2002 I don't want to start a controversy here but I know few guys jumping Velocities loaded ~2.0 that had the very same problems. They put a 28" pilot chute and no more line twists or cut-way. For $80 I would give a try.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #12 October 31, 2002 Standard PC on a Javelin is 27" and more than enough to pull out a 108 sq ft canopy. Recommended pilot chute size for the Extreme FX (similar canopy to the Xaos) is 18"-24". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #13 October 31, 2002 I know the recommended size is in that range, that's for the velocity too. Buy hey if he's jumping a small PC does not hurt to try a bigger one and see. I am just stating that fact that these two fellas were both jumping the recommended PCs and by changing to 28" solved all the problems. Probably just coincidence, but what ain't Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #14 October 31, 2002 Thanks everyone! Any more tips? I've attempted to attached my video of it to this reply - beware - I haven't done this before so apologies if it doesn't work after you download it!! PS I love it when it opens but at the moment my reserve repacks are eating into the 50% i saved on the price!http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #15 October 31, 2002 I like the openings on mine. Have had some line twists, but generally not anymore. No cutaways or anything supper goofy. oH, one really spinny one, but anyway. Some good tips here. I would say, Pitch stable, look at the Horizon, like somebody said. Don't look up at it until you are swinging down. I then go for the rears, but try not to steer it too much. Also, I think I was having trouble when I was over rolling the tail. Now, I am careful to flake it good, not over roll it, make it semetrical behind the lable, and don't catch the nose in the roll. fun canopy. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #16 October 31, 2002 If it is line stows; do you have the in-board line stow modification on your D-bag? Jumpshack has an article on the Mod. It puts the stows closer to the center line of the bag. Therefore less likely to spin. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #17 October 31, 2002 I don't think the video worked (1.8meg mpg) I've just measured my pc and its 24" - its also time for me to get a new one - any more opinions on what size?http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #18 October 31, 2002 Might not hurt to try a bigger one - I had my 28" PC cut down to 21" to save on Chiropractor fees. "Only being serious" - I had some horrendous hard openings on a 28" PC (and more than my fair share of twists as well). I had the bridle line shortened and the PC cut down to 21" and have had much softer openings ever since. Very occasionally still get twists (usually from rushed pack jobs) but postings above have worked well for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #19 October 31, 2002 I don't have that mod but have seen it on other rigs - i may try it - thanks!http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #20 October 31, 2002 Go for a 21" ZP. Samurai's comment about the D bag is worth taking note of - I have ordered one from Aerotech but it is taking an age to arrive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #21 October 31, 2002 Standerd on a newer Jav is 30 inch F111 directly sewn to the Dbag.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JGarcia 0 #22 October 31, 2002 I have 250+ jumps on my Xaos-21 108 and have nothing but good things to say about it's openings. I've had 2 pretty good line twists in that time, but the canopy still flew straight and level. The first one was flying a Bird-Man suit, but I deployed in a funky position. The other time I was jumping a camera, but it felt wrong as soon as I pitched the pilot chute (possible snag on corner of container??) Overall, the canopy gives me the most consistent openings (much better than even a Spectre 135). So don't know if it'll help, but here's what I do... Stow brakes as soon as I land. Once in the packing area, I separate the line grops (brake lines rear riser lines, front riser lines). I flake the tail, counting out the four brake lines, quarter my slider, flake the nose. Then I grab the entire nose, shake the canopy out and shove everything towards the center/middle of the parachute. I then take the stabilizers and bring them in towards the middle as well. At this point, only half of the logo is visible on either stabilizer (the other half is folded in towards the middle with the rest of the nose). Next, I bring the slider out from within the nose and open it up so that it kinda resembles an open ....part of the female genitalia. I grab the tail, wrap 5 times, lay it down. It goes into the bag. I single stow the first two stows with a regular size rubber band (each stow is about 1 to 1.5 inches long). I then double stow EVERY other stow using the MINI rubber bands. This leaves me with about 18 inches of slack left from the last stow to the riser. I pack it this way EVERY time and works quite well for me, even when I deploy in a slight track or flying the bird-man suit. I use a standard PC (probably 24 inches). The important thing with these HMA lines is that they're stowed TIGHTLY, and you deploy stable. I never steer through my opening and I never look up at my opening parachute unless there's a problem. Hope this may help. --Jairo Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #23 October 31, 2002 Quoteit initially opens on heading - then veers one way - then the twists develop the other way! I think I'm overcorrecting but I'm interested to see what other people think. If you think you're overcorrecting, you probably are. If you're consciously using a lot of harness input one way or another, it's probably too much. If you just concentrate on staying even, your body will naturally correct the heading. You may feel a pulsating from one side of the harness to the other. In effect, you're feeling the "input" you're giving the canopy by staying symmetrical. That input should be enough. I doubt you're having a packing problem, or a gear problem... by what you're saying, anyway. Sounds to me like it's happening after it comes out of the bag. Especially if it opens initially on heading. Like Hook said, try staying even.... Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #24 October 31, 2002 Thanks for that. Hows the 27?http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #25 October 31, 2002 Openings? Great. A bit twitchier than the 21, but soft and slow, very comfortable. And it flies awesome-- I'll let you know how I do this weekend in Atlanta.... Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
