Vengeance- opinionz

[flipper 0]

Hi
Ive got around 900 jumps on a stiletto 120 at 1.6.
Over the last few weeks i have done some jumps on a vengeance 107...first thoughts on the chute are that its like a 'hotted' up stiletto....openings...real nice ...very stilettoish...with fairly quick, responsive turns and reaction to toggle input...the landings i have found to be ultra good...real smooth with looooong surfs ( straight in approaches)..
now i do a lot of tandems so i decided to go for the veng. 120...little bit slower and maybe slightly forgiving than the 107...
is there any of you guys out there that jump the vengeance ...at the same wing loading as me....what im after is advance warning of any little hassles ...that the new chute might have in store for me..
thanks
Flipper

[jurgencamps 0]

I have a vengeance 120, (1,6) and I am very happy with this canopy. It swoops very good and even in no wind conditions you don't need to run at the end of a good swoop.
PD says that if you want to load it heavier then 1,8 that you better buy a velocity.

[verticalflyer 11]

I jump a Samurai the airlocked canopy from Brian Germain, Brian designs it PD manufacturers it i have jumped both the Vengeance and Sam and prefer the Sam, sweet opening and great surfs overall the canopies are quite similiar slightly flatter glide and higher recovery arc for swoops on the Sam I jump at 1.75 on a Sam 105 and its great.
Cheers
Fraser

[Zennie 0]

I've been jumping a Jedei 136 (precursur to the Samurai) for about the past 150 jumps or so. Just bought a Vengeance 120 and like it a lot. Just a few impressions...
Jedei/Samurai
---------------------
* "Icarus" style flare (doesn't bite until deeper in the stroke).
* Good with braked turns... not "twitchy".
* Big time oversteer on riser turns.
* Great glide. I had some seriously bad spots and always made it back.
* Moderate front riser pressure.
Vengeance
----------------
* "PD"-style flare (duh).
* Little twitchier in the toggles. Braked turns are a little more dicey.
* Very light front riser pressure. I could hold double fronts pretty much as long as I wanted to.
* Very nice glide.
* Great surfs.
I realize some of the performance difference are due to the fact tht the Jedei has around 1000 jumps on it, and the Vengeance is a size smaller. I have put a few jumps on a Vengeance 135 and my general impressions are pretty much the same.
They're both great canopies. I don't think you can go wrong either way. My thing right now is getting used to the PD-style flare on the Vengeance again (I had a Sabre before the Jedei). Once I get it dialed in that thing is gonna surf like crazy.
Oh and FYI I'm loading the Vengeance around 1.4 (just lost around 15 pounds).
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[ramon 0]

Since you have not jumped a stilleto 120 for 900 jumps the vengeance 120 might seem like a dog except it will have lighter riser pressure and longer recovery arc (with a little bit of a negative recovery). I have first hand experience with this phenomena.
The vengeance is the highest aspect ratio canopy PD makes and maybe that is why it seems doggy compared to the same size stilleto.
even PD recommends jumping one size smaller Vengeance than stilleto.
Heads up for vengeance quirks...because it is airlocked and high spect ratio (1.72 i think), if one side inflates a little before the other it will dive hard during opening. The only linetwists I have ever had on a vengeance (1.7 wingload) where when I jumped a tube (I don't recommend it ).
I have always packed my vengeance very carefully (not like stilleto)..make it very even (pull slider out a little do what ever you want with the nose), small rubber bands, 3-4 " bites, and at leat 18" of line left over.
If you are slightly sloppy the openings might be more divey, but when I am most careful and fly the harness they are soft and on heading.
At a minimum demo a 120 before you buy it, you will be sorry (unless all you want it for is lighter riser pressure) ..read the gear reviews, Chuck Blue will agree with me there.
Ramon
"wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

[Kirils 1]

I demo'd a 135 Vengeance. I thought I was flying a 150! It flies BIG... The openings were OK, but end cell closure put me in a spin every other jump! I like the solid feel under canopy. It flies better than my Jedei. BUT considering the price v/s performance...check out a Cobalt, Xaos, or Crossfire@ first!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[jurgencamps 0]

The first few jumps, my vengeance had some bad openings (end cell closure, dives to one side ...) Just adapted my packing a little bit and voilà. The canopy don't like that you pack it to carefully (strange?).

[ramon 0]

I meant the aspect ratio was 2.72/1 for a vengeance.
my bad
ramon
"wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

[jumperconway 0]

I jumped a Samauri 105 @ 1.7/1 for a few weeks and had numerous spinning openings. Also considerable oversteer. I just got a new Crossfire-2 89 loading @ 2.1 and it doesn't have any of the baggage associated with air locks. Wait til you have to fight that canopy on the ground on a real windy day.
Conway

[ramon 0]

not s-a-m-u-r-a-i

vengeance opens better and is easy to pull hard dives and swoops, but I suspect a very very good samurai pilot might swoop a little further.
I like my vengeance because I turn it at an atltitude where I get scared on my FX and it is perfect (i.e. not that much adjustment) and it is a good second canopy.
r
"wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

[csejer 0]

Hi
I own a Vengeance 107 too, loaded 1.8 (for sale though under classifieds Unfortunately I tried a Velocity and since I'm into swooping I had to by one. But even though I get longer swoops now on my Velocity 96 loaded 2.0 the Vengeance is definitely the canopy I loved the most. The openings, stability in turbulent conditions (In Denmark its often very windy and small landings areas) and the extra lift/flare in landings compared to the Stiletto.
I convinced a rather conservative friend with 1500+ jumps on a Stiletto 120 to buy a Vengeance 107 and in the beginning he that the openings where strange and felt it was very similar to the Stiletto.
Now that he's got some jumps on it he dosn't regret changing and he was a awesome swooper on the Stiletto 120 but it looks even better now.
I mainly do 4-way, but also AFF and tandem videos and sometimes the Velocity scares me a bit because of the unpredictable openings, I didn't have that with the Vengeance, but I guess you can't have everything in a canopy :-)
If you're in doubt about making it back with a 107, then several times I flew side by side with my friend in my Vengeance 107 when he had his Stiletto 120, and we have the same exit weight.
Hope it helps.....

-CS

[Kirils 1]

I jumped a 135 Vengence and got tired of the bad openings. Cell closure on just one side gave me many spinning openings! The canopy flew very very "BIG" and was very stable . It turned slow and gave great landings. It's a good canopy, but not any better than my Jedei (that I regretably sold).
I'm not excited about air locked canopys at all.
I now jump a Xaos 21 and performance wise it is far superior to the Vengence. Demo a Cobalt. Crossfire2 and Xaos. All three are fantastic canopys and I think you realize it's not worth the cost or hastles that

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come with an airlocked canopy.

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

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