Censorship

[j5okeefe 0]

Apologies if it's been covered here but I couldn't find anything...

The censorship on this website via moderators sucks horribly and without being able to see what gets censored I honestly feel like the moderators detract from the quality of discussions. I'm sure there are times when censorship CAN be appropriate but I submit this: users should be able to select a preference to whether or not they can see deleted posts.

For those who want a politically correct discussion or whatever, they don't have to see them - that can be their choice. However, for those of us who want to see the stupid/offensive/controversial/non-moderator-approved posts, I believe the option should exist. Perhaps it could be made to where the 'deleted' posts can't be copied/pasted into threads or even replied to, but I think it's wholly inappropriate to completely block them from view.

I know this website has its own rules regarding that, but being that it is a primary gathering point for skydiving discussions of every sort on the internet I think the freedom of speech and information flow here should not be limited as such.

... and if anyone is wondering or cares, the principle catalyst for this post is Rhys and the Argus issue. Yes it's a bit late, but to me it seems like there was a huge conflict of interest between Rhys and the forum moderators, direct or indirect. Regardless of who is or was right or wrong, I wanted to read what he had to say and any public rebuttals - whether they were right or wrong.

tl;dr - Censorship isn't cool. Stop deleting posts.

I'll be whatever I want to do!

[PhreeZone 15]

I would love to know what is the "huge conflict of interest" that the moderators have.

For the most part we try to have minimal influence on the topical forums to allow discussion to continue but when topics are driven off course or are being used to push agendas we will step in to make sure things are put back on track. The only forum that has an exception to this is INcidents where we will remove posts for much less serious infractions to keep that one more focused.

The current version of the software that powers these forums does not allow for any ability to opt in for removed posts. In fact most of the removed posts are moved to their own forum that is not accessible to avoid cluttering the active threads.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Meso 38]

Censorship is a nice term since soon as someone reads it they think "Oh God, how oppressive! Censorship is wrong!"

It's not censorship, it's called moderation. There is a difference. We don't seek to oppress opinion, we do not moderate what people say, but rather how they say it. And that is never going to change.

We require people to act somewhat civilized on the forums, and if you want to post here, you're going to have to show others a bit of respect, if you disagree with something, sure go ahead and express your opinion. Just do it in a way that isn't disrespectful and rude.

If someone posts something you disagree with, and you reply saying: "I disagree with that because ...". There will be no moderation, but if you had to reply with: "You're wrong, you're an idiot." your post will be hidden for breaking the rules, that's not censorship.

It's quite simple, if you want to post here, follow the forum rules. The rules are hardly even strict, you'll find many forums this size will be far more strict and make off-topic postings and swearing a bannable offence.

Quote

However, for those of us who want to see the stupid/offensive/controversial/non-moderator-approved posts, I believe the option should exist. Perhaps it could be made to where the 'deleted' posts can't be copied/pasted into threads or even replied to, but I think it's wholly inappropriate to completely block them from view.

Luckily the amount of people that moan about censorship is very small. We don't hide posts so that it will be nicer to read for you and all soft and cuddly. Posts are hidden when they break a forum rule. I think it's highly appropriate to block them from view. In fact vast majority of large forums completely block or delete an offending post altogether, I am a user on numerous large forums and I am yet to find one that gives the options to display hidden posts to regular users at will or tries to make the moderation of the site bend to the will of those crying 'censorship'.

[j5okeefe 0]

Thank you for the responses... and I agree that 'censorship' is not the best word to use there. Rules that are in place when a user joins this forum are clearly stated and they definitely need to be followed - no argument there. I just thought it'd be neat-o if I could choose to see the moderated posts if I wanted to, but Phreezone mentioned that the forum isn't set up for that.

After re-reading my post it does look as though I was being whiny and accusatory and that wasn't really the intent. Thanks again for the responses.

I'll be whatever I want to do!

[matthewcline 0]

Well it is a privately held entity.
It would be nice if it was a little more even handed in application. The "appearance" of favoratism does seem to exist.
PA's get ignored and threads the mods don't wish to keep a close eye on get over run with childish antics.

I would suggest a hard one time warning to a new user first time they cross the line. The warning post coup[led with viewing privileges only in the thread they crossed the line in for 48 hours.

I would further suggest if a thread is on the page that no one in the Moderator Team wants to moderate, delete it. Make the last post, say this thread is being closed and its topic will not be allowed on the page.

Or add "Stealth Moderators" who can delete posts or temporarily block users till the Green and Red Mods can address the issue.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[slotperfect 7]

All of us are volunteers. All of us have real lives (careers, families, hobbies, community involvement, etc.). There is no way there are going to be Moderator eyes on every post in every thread at all hours. We rely on other responsible folks to point out to us that there is trouble happening in a particular thread. There are a lot of you that are a big help . . . we even help each other between Moderators (Moderators do not have privileges in all forums).

Forums are not moderated the same, and that is by design. While the Forum Rules (very few) are enforced in all forums, some require more detail and quicker action. An example is the Incidents Forum, which is moderated a bit differently - hence the "Before You Post Here" banner that pops up when you start a thread.

In my opinion there are three main problems that lead to the sort of difficulties referred to in this thread:

-People don't read the Forum Rules
-People don't care about the Forum Rules
-People forget that this is privately owned space and not a public street corner. They think they have a "right" to say or do things outside of the rules because [insert justification here].

There are two other major factors . . . people in these forums are either:

-Very like they are in person
OR
-Somebody totally different (usually in a negative way) because there is no real life accountability for what they say or the way they act.

The way I look at it . . . I treat this site as if I were a guest in the owner's house. If his rules are remove your shoes before entering and don't put your feet on the furniture, I respect those rules because I am a guest in his house - regardless of what I do in my own house or what I think of those particular rules. As long as I find value in the experience of being in his privately owned space, I will keep coming back (and even help maintain the place a bit). If the rules become more than I can stomach, I will choose to hang out someplace else.

Arrive Safely

John

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

All of us are volunteers. All of us have real lives (careers, families, hobbies, community involvement, etc.). There is no way there are going to be Moderator eyes on every post in every thread at all hours. We rely on other responsible folks to point out to us that there is trouble happening in a particular thread. There are a lot of you that are a big help . . . we even help each other between Moderators (Moderators do not have privileges in all forums).

There are a few who have volunteered to help. We know you're a volunteer too.

Forums are not moderated the same, and that is by design. While the Forum Rules (very few) are enforced in all forums, some require more detail and quicker action. An example is the Incidents Forum, which is moderated a bit differently - hence the "Before You Post Here" banner that pops up when you start a thread.

In my opinion there are three main problems that lead to the sort of difficulties referred to in this thread:

-People don't read the Forum Rules
-People don't care about the Forum Rules
-People forget that this is privately owned space and not a public street corner. They think they have a "right" to say or do things outside of the rules because [insert justification here].

I agree with all the above

There are two other major factors . . . people in these forums are either:

-Very like they are in person
OR
-Somebody totally different (usually in a negative way) because there is no real life accountability for what they say or the way they act.

The way I look at it . . . I treat this site as if I were a guest in the owner's house. If his rules are remove your shoes before entering and don't put your feet on the furniture, I respect those rules because I am a guest in his house - regardless of what I do in my own house or what I think of those particular rules. As long as I find value in the experience of being in his privately owned space, I will keep coming back (and even help maintain the place a bit). If the rules become more than I can stomach, I will choose to hang out someplace else.

Some of us point things out relatively consistently and even handed, to no avail.

Again, I agree with the rules of the private sight. I also think if some one is volunteering then that might be a consideration and if one or more Mods don't approve ask why? If it is personal, look past that and see if it can be done in a professional manner.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[slotperfect 7]

Things that are personal are passed off to other Moderators by request. You don't see it, because the conversations happen in private. It happens all the time - it happened this week as a matter of fact.

Arrive Safely

John

[matthewcline 0]

I think that may have gotten confused, by personal, I meant that; if a Mod has a personal issue with a person who wants to help and is voicing a negative vote for that reason. they should stand back and take the different approach.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!