humanflite 0 #1 June 9, 2008 hey folks, I recently went tunnel flying for the first time and LOVED it Me and my friend did 20 minutes each (split into 10 x 2minutes) and it was superb. As I have a low jump number I thought the tunnel would be good to help advance my freefall skills and so we have decided to go regularly to the tunnel to get some hours in. I have been finding it difficult to find any books or manuals on tunnel flying (or normal FF skills)...or any web articles that go into the basic principles of freefall movements (eg/ up, down, forwards, backwards, sideways etc) At the minute my tunnel (and freefall) skills include: Stable arch 360 turns either way - usually stable as in no wobbles! a bit forwards (I can track really well in freefall) backwards no problem Up (a bit) Down (a bit) I cant afford to pay for coached lessons for a month or two as the tunnel time costs enough anyway when added to regular jumps so Im hoping for some tips just to give me a heads up before my next session One other question I have is that at the start of the session I was hovering above the mesh (1 ft off~ it) and I didnt really know how to rise up....(as Ive never done it on AFF!) In the last 2 minute blocks I was getting to about 5 or 6ft off the mesh (not knowing how at this stage) and was arching more and coming back down again... but it wasnt consistent ie/ I couldnt deliberately make myself go up... Any tips on what I 'should' be doing for this to happen? Im 14 1/2 stone and 6ft 1 broad build (not fat) and the tunnel is easily capable of propelling me through the roof the instructor said so I cant blame tunnel power... Can I perform as well in the tunnel using the basic arch or do I need to start learning the mantis position in order to progress fast? Thanks for your help Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #2 June 9, 2008 Glad you enjoyed it! Which tunnel did you fly? Chances are the instructors at the tunnel will be able to give you some tips and basic advice. Don't expect them to coach you if you're not paying for coaching, but ask them and ask local instructors at your dropzone. You're going to learn a lot more talking to someone in person about this, especially at the stage you're at. As for the principles of freefall movement - all of it is based on air deflection. Deflect air to the right, you move left. I strongly recommend getting some basic coaching to make sure you don't build in any bad habits. At least get 1 or 2 sessions coached. You'll learn the correct way and learn much faster. For the specific questions you asked, the reason you were higher off the net toward the end of the session is *probably* because either you were more stable so the controller increased the wind speed, or you were tired so you weren't arching as much. Without seeing video there's no way to know for sure. You go down by arching and up by dearching. The dearch looks similar to a cat when it stretches or someone getting punched in the stomach. Learn that before adding your arms and legs into it. You go down by arching more. The easiest way to do that is to relax (take a deep breath and exhale) and let the wind do the work for you. You can perform fine in the tunnel using the basic arch (I'm guessing you are referring to the boxman position) or mantis.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites humanflite 0 #3 June 10, 2008 Thanks need2jumpMy local tunnel (2hrs away by car) is Bodyflight in Bedford http://www.bodyflight.co.uk/ and it is a very professional setup from what I have experienced. Thanks for your tips. The instructor did give us some pointers b4 starting and also some pointers in the tunnel, however he was a talented tunnel rat himself and enjoyed doing the moves we were trying to do and performed them with sickening perfection each time. (they were helpful as demos tho) in other words though he liked to show off the the spectators!! but that didnt help us out. What we wanted was some manual body position tweaking until it was 'spot on' and it took me about 5 sessions until he gave me the thumbs up that all was great. But in the tunnel you cant hear anything so I didnt get all the info he was trying to tell me regarding going up and down and side to side.... I did mean boxman position in my first post!! It seems the mantis position is taught shortly after A license and this is what Im wondering if I should do in the tunnel? Looks like I may have to pay for coaching at £10 per minute Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #4 June 10, 2008 I would recommend coaching by a dedicated coach to maximise your learning. You can bring your own coach to any tunnel and negotiate your own rate (which may or may not work out cheaper than the tunne lstaff) or you can utilise the tunnel staff themselves. Bodyflight Bedford currently charge £60 per hour for coaching from the staff there. It's a good deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites humanflite 0 #5 June 10, 2008 QuoteI would recommend coaching by a dedicated coach to maximise your learning. You can bring your own coach to any tunnel and negotiate your own rate (which may or may not work out cheaper than the tunne lstaff) or you can utilise the tunnel staff themselves. Bodyflight Bedford currently charge £60 per hour for coaching from the staff there. It's a good deal. Thanks for the info Ross. I had a quick look on your site and as I will be going halves on a few hours (not all at the same time tho!) of tunnel time with a friend could you pm me with if you do coaching at bodyflight bedford and give me an idea of costs etc thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #6 June 10, 2008 Hi again Pleased I helped. I've sent you a PM also as requested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brettski74 0 #7 June 11, 2008 Seriously, get coaching. It's so much more worthwhile. I know you said there's a money issue with coaching, but if I had the chance of doing 15 minutes with a coach, or 60 minutes without a coach, I'd take the 15 minutes with coach. A good coach will: - show you the right way to do it first time, rather than let you spend an hour learning bad habits that will limit you later on. - give you immediate feedback on your performance and correct anything you're doing wrong. Even if you've got some pointers on the right way to do something, without someone else watching you and providing feedback you'll likely miss most of the errors you're making while trying to learn a new skill. I strongly believe that you'll get much better value out of 15 minutes of tunnel with a good coach then you will ever get out of an hour or more of tunnel time without a coach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites humanflite 0 #8 June 11, 2008 Quote Seriously, get coaching. It's so much more worthwhile. I know you said there's a money issue with coaching, but if I had the chance of doing 15 minutes with a coach, or 60 minutes without a coach, I'd take the 15 minutes with coach. A good coach will: - show you the right way to do it first time, rather than let you spend an hour learning bad habits that will limit you later on. - give you immediate feedback on your performance and correct anything you're doing wrong. Even if you've got some pointers on the right way to do something, without someone else watching you and providing feedback you'll likely miss most of the errors you're making while trying to learn a new skill. I strongly believe that you'll get much better value out of 15 minutes of tunnel with a good coach then you will ever get out of an hour or more of tunnel time without a coach. Thanks Brett Im looking into coaching and have found its not as expensive as I thought. I was misinformed and thought it was £10 per minute but its actually £1 per minute of coaching time _ brief, de brief time etc etc Ive got 30 minutes booked in this weekend with 'minimal' coaching as it was a special offer but once I have done that I think I will arrange a coached hour once a month or more if funds allow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites humanflite 0 #9 June 13, 2008 Well, we ended up going today and it was FANTASTIC Something really 'clicked' in my brain and body and I was actually flying as opposed to falling.. Got my turns spot on, got the up and down nailed and was going right up to the max height I was allowed (grey bit I think).. then went in a three way with a B license guy (with a fair bit of tunnel time) and instructor.. that was great fun also. It is soooo much more fun now I actually 'get it' a bit... got forwards and backwards sorted as well and the instructor(s) were well pleased with our progress today. Im still buzzing...this could get expensive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #10 June 15, 2008 haha. Yep, you're addicted Good job dude. See you soon! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites showithers 0 #11 June 21, 2008 http://www.joaotambor.com/ This place has really helpful DVD's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites humanflite 0 #12 June 21, 2008 Quote haha. Yep, you're addicted Good job dude. See you soon! Cheers Ross. Indeedio To the last poster....thanks for the link. have you watched on of these DVDs by any chance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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NeedToJump 0 #2 June 9, 2008 Glad you enjoyed it! Which tunnel did you fly? Chances are the instructors at the tunnel will be able to give you some tips and basic advice. Don't expect them to coach you if you're not paying for coaching, but ask them and ask local instructors at your dropzone. You're going to learn a lot more talking to someone in person about this, especially at the stage you're at. As for the principles of freefall movement - all of it is based on air deflection. Deflect air to the right, you move left. I strongly recommend getting some basic coaching to make sure you don't build in any bad habits. At least get 1 or 2 sessions coached. You'll learn the correct way and learn much faster. For the specific questions you asked, the reason you were higher off the net toward the end of the session is *probably* because either you were more stable so the controller increased the wind speed, or you were tired so you weren't arching as much. Without seeing video there's no way to know for sure. You go down by arching and up by dearching. The dearch looks similar to a cat when it stretches or someone getting punched in the stomach. Learn that before adding your arms and legs into it. You go down by arching more. The easiest way to do that is to relax (take a deep breath and exhale) and let the wind do the work for you. You can perform fine in the tunnel using the basic arch (I'm guessing you are referring to the boxman position) or mantis.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #3 June 10, 2008 Thanks need2jumpMy local tunnel (2hrs away by car) is Bodyflight in Bedford http://www.bodyflight.co.uk/ and it is a very professional setup from what I have experienced. Thanks for your tips. The instructor did give us some pointers b4 starting and also some pointers in the tunnel, however he was a talented tunnel rat himself and enjoyed doing the moves we were trying to do and performed them with sickening perfection each time. (they were helpful as demos tho) in other words though he liked to show off the the spectators!! but that didnt help us out. What we wanted was some manual body position tweaking until it was 'spot on' and it took me about 5 sessions until he gave me the thumbs up that all was great. But in the tunnel you cant hear anything so I didnt get all the info he was trying to tell me regarding going up and down and side to side.... I did mean boxman position in my first post!! It seems the mantis position is taught shortly after A license and this is what Im wondering if I should do in the tunnel? Looks like I may have to pay for coaching at £10 per minute Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #4 June 10, 2008 I would recommend coaching by a dedicated coach to maximise your learning. You can bring your own coach to any tunnel and negotiate your own rate (which may or may not work out cheaper than the tunne lstaff) or you can utilise the tunnel staff themselves. Bodyflight Bedford currently charge £60 per hour for coaching from the staff there. It's a good deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #5 June 10, 2008 QuoteI would recommend coaching by a dedicated coach to maximise your learning. You can bring your own coach to any tunnel and negotiate your own rate (which may or may not work out cheaper than the tunne lstaff) or you can utilise the tunnel staff themselves. Bodyflight Bedford currently charge £60 per hour for coaching from the staff there. It's a good deal. Thanks for the info Ross. I had a quick look on your site and as I will be going halves on a few hours (not all at the same time tho!) of tunnel time with a friend could you pm me with if you do coaching at bodyflight bedford and give me an idea of costs etc thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #6 June 10, 2008 Hi again Pleased I helped. I've sent you a PM also as requested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #7 June 11, 2008 Seriously, get coaching. It's so much more worthwhile. I know you said there's a money issue with coaching, but if I had the chance of doing 15 minutes with a coach, or 60 minutes without a coach, I'd take the 15 minutes with coach. A good coach will: - show you the right way to do it first time, rather than let you spend an hour learning bad habits that will limit you later on. - give you immediate feedback on your performance and correct anything you're doing wrong. Even if you've got some pointers on the right way to do something, without someone else watching you and providing feedback you'll likely miss most of the errors you're making while trying to learn a new skill. I strongly believe that you'll get much better value out of 15 minutes of tunnel with a good coach then you will ever get out of an hour or more of tunnel time without a coach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #8 June 11, 2008 Quote Seriously, get coaching. It's so much more worthwhile. I know you said there's a money issue with coaching, but if I had the chance of doing 15 minutes with a coach, or 60 minutes without a coach, I'd take the 15 minutes with coach. A good coach will: - show you the right way to do it first time, rather than let you spend an hour learning bad habits that will limit you later on. - give you immediate feedback on your performance and correct anything you're doing wrong. Even if you've got some pointers on the right way to do something, without someone else watching you and providing feedback you'll likely miss most of the errors you're making while trying to learn a new skill. I strongly believe that you'll get much better value out of 15 minutes of tunnel with a good coach then you will ever get out of an hour or more of tunnel time without a coach. Thanks Brett Im looking into coaching and have found its not as expensive as I thought. I was misinformed and thought it was £10 per minute but its actually £1 per minute of coaching time _ brief, de brief time etc etc Ive got 30 minutes booked in this weekend with 'minimal' coaching as it was a special offer but once I have done that I think I will arrange a coached hour once a month or more if funds allow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #9 June 13, 2008 Well, we ended up going today and it was FANTASTIC Something really 'clicked' in my brain and body and I was actually flying as opposed to falling.. Got my turns spot on, got the up and down nailed and was going right up to the max height I was allowed (grey bit I think).. then went in a three way with a B license guy (with a fair bit of tunnel time) and instructor.. that was great fun also. It is soooo much more fun now I actually 'get it' a bit... got forwards and backwards sorted as well and the instructor(s) were well pleased with our progress today. Im still buzzing...this could get expensive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #10 June 15, 2008 haha. Yep, you're addicted Good job dude. See you soon! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
showithers 0 #11 June 21, 2008 http://www.joaotambor.com/ This place has really helpful DVD's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #12 June 21, 2008 Quote haha. Yep, you're addicted Good job dude. See you soon! Cheers Ross. Indeedio To the last poster....thanks for the link. have you watched on of these DVDs by any chance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
