Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor

[Squeak 17]

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no, I read all of them starting with screw tipping them. as for the anonymity, I'm just lazy and didnt want to fill it out, really need to get around to that. as for your base line, your dead on, i totally agree, but no where on this thread has one person said or implied that they expect to be tipped

there are people who have said they alter what they do based on whether people have tipped previously,that to me implies an expectation

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Squeak 17]

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interestingly squeek Jewels question was also not about whether to tip or not tip, but that she wanted to tip and was asking how much. you single handedly turned that into an attack on the instructors,
that somehow we are misleading customers, expecting a tip,
and then doing a sub-standard job if we don't get one.

As I mentioned previously if you change what you do based on whether you got tipped previously then you are impying that tipping is expected. The job may not be substandard, but if it is anything different to what you nornally do based on lack of tipping then I think this is a swubstandard attitude. (JMO)

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i feel like you've had some really bad experience at a tunnel, and that may be what's behind your obviously passionate feelings about the issue.

Quite the contrary actually the tunnel time I have had has been with a coach and a very good coach at that (Pete Allum) I learned a lot and enjoyed it emensely

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also interesting to me is that this particular product, (adult league at SVCO), to my knowledge has never been tried before. we did give free coaching from the start, and we also did not explain to those customers that they owed anything extra, because they don't. both the free coaching, and them not owing us anything extra, continues. this thread was begun, i believe, simply because some of the members have come to realize that we are doing more than what is typically expected, and would like some help on figuring out how much of a tip is appropriate to give.

From what I gather this is not strictly true, but without suficient information I wont go into that aspect of the adult league.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[RackJR 0]

who said that? in this thread?

Say what you mean. Do what you say.

[Jewels 0]

I don't know that the reason I started the thread is all that helpful to the discussion, but please don't read anything significant into it. Here's the background:

I have casually discussed the tipping question with friends (some who are in league, some who are not) from time to time. One of the points that came up in our conversations in the context of adult league was that for an instructor to take league for a full hour is a lot of work, especially on nights when there’s only one instructor covering it and particularly now that most of us are beginning to try more difficult things. There was some sense—whether or not correct—that some of the instructors might not look forward to taking league, primarily because it IS a hard hour. Some of us wanted to do something so that taking league might be a little less of a groaner for the instructors. *I* wanted to step it up in the tipping department but I also understand the other side for those who might feel that instruction is a basic part of what they’ve purchased and not necessarily something that should be compensated for “again.” There was no discussion among us about who wanted to tip and who didn’t; no one opted in or out of some sort of tipping plan; the idea was just to do it, but not with the notion that everyone had to chip in. I don't think that should change. We just wanted "tipping representation," if you will.

I believe every instructor who has said that they don’t expect a tip. On the other hand, I think there’s a continuum between “it would really be nice” and actual expectation. I’m pretty sure that some instructors weigh in more heavily on one side of the continuum than the other, and that’s okay. That’s why I raised the question about how much of a tip is appropriate. I wanted to have some sense for what might make an instructor feel like their hour was worth the extra effort.

There’s no ulterior motive. I'm not critical of people who don't want to tip. Tipping should never be about whether it's OWED or it isn't. Otherwise, it's a fee, not a tip.

If anyone from league is eavesdropping, PLEASE feel free to correct me if I’m not presenting this accurately. I'm only able to present it the way I've perceived it; I'm not The Voice of League.

TPM Sister #102

[muzzler 0]

I kinda skimmed through this discussion.
if I go to a restuarant and dont feel that I should tip,does that mean that all waitresses and waiters should quit their day jobs because they do it for ther pay and not their tips?
Tips are apreciated greatly.I turn down some tips and accept some.If your instructor teaches you something and you can afford it....go ahead and tip them!
If you really cant afford it....dont!!

[rehmwa 2]

We just got back from SVCO. We only had tips accepted twice out of a dozen sessions. And those two where we insisted the instructor had to do more than just watch the session and keep it organized, or step in and catch someone who stuck themselves in a burble or so. We saw a large portion of the staff as a result of so many sessions

1 - every single instructor was upbeat and loved being there and was enthusiastic about the group - no exception. every one focused on the job the entire time. no exception.

2 - both of the instructors were a bit embarassed about being offered a few bucks, (worth a meal or so), but seemed happy enough. Neither acted like it was due. Those that didn't get a kick, didn't act like it was expected

3 - the whole experience was fantastic and this is a very nicely run tunnel. the desk staff didn't miss a beat, not a single DVD was messed up,

4 - we only got a single smart ass comment over three days - and that was in fun

I think there is absolutely ZERO sense of entitlement by instructors in general in this industry on this topic. I've had tips turned down, in fact, in Orlando, and in CO so far.

I wish we had planned a bit and brought in donuts each morning. Hard to do with only 4 hours of sleep each night.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Jewels 0]

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We just got back from SVCO.

1 - every single instructor was upbeat and loved being there and was enthusiastic about the group - no exception. every one focused on the job the entire time. no exception.

2 - both of the instructors were a bit embarassed about being offered a few bucks, (worth a meal or so), but seemed happy enough. Neither acted like it was due. Those that didn't get a kick, didn't act like it was expected

3 - the whole experience was fantastic and this is a very nicely run tunnel. the desk staff didn't miss a beat, not a single DVD was messed up,

4 - we only got a single smart ass comment over three days - and that was in fun

I think there is absolutely ZERO sense of entitlement by instructors in general in this industry on this topic. I've had tips turned down, in fact, in Orlando, and in CO so far.

I am REALLY glad that this was your experience at SVCO and I echo the sentiment whole-heartedly. There's not a prevailing negative attitude there AT ALL and I certainly hope I haven't suggested by my question or any of my follow-up comments that there is. I consider SVCO to be top-notch all the way around and I'm proud that they're my home tunnel. The tipping issue has to do with appreciation, NOT, as you point out, as though it is due.

TPM Sister #102

[diablopilot 2]

The fact that anyone has led you to believe that the hour is "harder work" than anything else is disheartening. It means someone is really not into their job nor providing the same level of service to all.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Jewels 0]

Hmmm. I appreciate your point, but I still think it's fair to acknowledge that it might be more demanding to coach head-down for multiple people in an hour than to work on some other kinds of skills. I also suspect it's more *physically* demanding to work with us than it is to work with some other groups. (Shoulder pain, anyone? )

I'm not advocating a slow-down in service or lesser service, even if we collectively ask for more in terms of instructing/coaching or if the instructor goes into it with the expectation that they WON'T get a tip in the end. The fact that we have a slot together for league just intensifies the requirements of the instructor for that time period and I acknowledge that.

TPM Sister #102

[diablopilot 2]

AFAIK the Skyventure approved procedure for learning head down requires a seperate "Coach" in the tunnel with the student, as from the approved spotting position the "Instructor" is unable to comunicate with the student.

If an instructor thinks that this is "harder work" they should pass on the session.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Jewels 0]

Sorry, yes--there are always two in the tunnel for that. Nobody complained about head-down coaching being difficult. I just picked something to use as an example. Just because it's harder for me doesn't mean it's harder for them.

TPM Sister #102

[sartre 0]

Hey Jules, remember this post of mine?

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this is me backing away from a can of worms......

heeheeehee

you never know what's going to happen with a thread you start.

[sergant 0]

Sorry, guys, IMHO instructor should not be tipping unless:
1. coach is working
2. instructor is working as a coach, but you didn't talk to him previously

F@#k everything, call me cheap, but tunel time costs something, right...
Some of you could clame that skydiving costs more...
Partially that's try, but I cannot spend $3000 during one weekend for skydiving...
For windtunnel? Easy :)
So, if I decide spend a weekend in a windtunnel without a coach, how match should I add for tips after $3K?

[Jewels 0]

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Hey Jules, remember this post of mine?

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this is me backing away from a can of worms......

heeheeehee

you never know what's going to happen with a thread you start.

And here I thought it was an innocent question! I mean, my life could always use some spicing up but next time I think I'll try it a different way.

TPM Sister #102

[diablopilot 2]

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AFAIK the Skyventure approved procedure for learning head down requires a separate "Coach" in the tunnel with the student, as from the approved spotting position the "Instructor" is unable to communicate with the student.

If an instructor thinks that this is "harder work" they should pass on the session.

It's been suggested I clarify this....

IMO if you're willing to train for and accept a rating and the responsibilities of it, you should probably carry out those duties without complaint for ANY customer. If decide that the duties are too "hard" then you should think about quitting, or giving up the rating, however that may make you less valuable (therefore less employable) to your employer.

Note that the "you" in this post is entirely hypothetical, and reflects my views of no particular individual.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[razor 0]

julie,

that was a perfectly innocent, valid, and appropriate question. trouble seems to be that there are people out there who want to try and sway you and others to do what they do, instead of just offering their opinion and how they came to that opinion. who you deem tip worthy or not, and for how much or how little, is entirely up to you. staying away from the issue of instructor, coach, or lifeguard, or the details of anyones job description, I PERSONALLY, like to offer lunch, couple of beers, or 20 bucks, to someone that helps me to have a really good experience, like a river guide, surf instructor, rock climbing instructor, or waitress. whether or not they went above and beyond their responsibilities is inconsequential to me, all i care about is what i got out of it,

[Jewels 0]

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It's been suggested I clarify this....

IMO if you're willing to train for and accept a rating and the responsibilities of it, you should probably carry out those duties without complaint for ANY customer. If decide that the duties are too "hard" then you should think about quitting, or giving up the rating, however that may make you less valuable (therefore less employable) to your employer.

Note that the "you" in this post is entirely hypothetical, and reflects my views of no particular individual.

No worries!! You (you, Diablopilot, party of the first part) are correct when you say that you (the hypothetical "you") should be willing to perform your job responsibilities--all of them, all the time. No disagreement there! We (the global "we") all have parts of our professions that are more enjoyable and some that are less. It's still our job to do them.

TPM Sister #102

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[Jewels 0]

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I PERSONALLY, like to offer lunch, couple of beers, or 20 bucks, to someone that helps me to have a really good experience, like a river guide, surf instructor, rock climbing instructor, or waitress. whether or not they went above and beyond their responsibilities is inconsequential to me, all i care about is what i got out of it,

Cool! That's what I had in mind, back in the beginning . . . you know, when I thought that maybe three people would read the post at all and then maybe one of them would say something vague and non-responsive in return.

I'm joking about that, obviously, but I do think there's some value in shaking the tree to see what falls out. I found out, for example, that there are a lot of different positions on this (more than I expected, anyway) and that people really feel strongly about it no matter WHAT position they're taking. I also found out that coffee, donuts and beer are good tips, although not necessarily *together*. Oh--and I found out that before I start my next thread, I really should buy that helmet from hooknswoop. . . .

TPM Sister #102

[Squeak 17]

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Oh--and I found out that before I start my next thread, I really should buy that helmet from hooknswoop. . . .

But I would not tip him for that service

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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[Jewels 0]

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Oh--and I found out that before I start my next thread, I really should buy that helmet from hooknswoop. . . .

But I would not tip him for that service

Hear that, hooknswoop?! NO TIP FOR YOU!!

TPM Sister #102

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[freeflyflunky 0]

Just because it's a cold, rainy night in New Zealand and I have nothing better to do ...

And, just because I happen to know a few people who've posted thus far on this very entertaining thread...

I'll go to the effort of tossing in my two cents. Not that I really give a damn


Having spent a fair amount of time at SVCO -- and knowing a fair amount about Adult League -- I would have to say the following:

Julie asked a legitimate question. Tipping --like it or not folks,-- is sort of a part of the whole tunnel culture (and it goes without saying that I don't mean just at SVCO.) I'm not implying there's an obligation or expectation -- just that it is done a lot. And, in my opinion, rightfully so. I don't think the question was ever "Gee, should I tip or not?" She merely wanted to know WHAT she should give the guys.

Secondly, Why couldn't this have just ended with an actual tunnel instructor saying what seems to be the general consensus -- that they don't expect it, they do appreciate it. I think that's what Jason, et al.. are trying to get across to y'all. Not that difficult of a concept to wrap your head around and really not that controversial, is it? Are some of you genuinely arguing that tunnel instructors should never be tipped because "they knew what they signed up for?" If you really do feel that way, fine, don't tip when you're there. No one will shoot you a dirty look or trip you as you go down the stairs. It really isn't that big of a deal. But to go to all the effort of going online and inserting yourself in this conversation (yes, I am familiar with both the pot and the kettle, but I'm in the South Pacific. What's your excuse?) with your own negativity and your own (in my view) inaccurate opinions about what is or isn't or should or shouldn't be expected at the tunnel -- well, that's just BS as far as I'm concerned. Really.


Since I've already joined in on the mudslinging (there's some lovely filth over there...) I'll just add one more dig. JP -- no offense man -- but what kettle are you trying to stir up with the whole HD Adult League thing? I don't think Julie ever said that some instructor took her aside and said, "hey, listen Jewels, I really like league and all, and I think you're swell -- but my shoulder's really been killing me since that spot last week. I know you want to learn HD, but I really want to be able walk up stairs when I'm sixty -- or, if not that -- at least have a five spot to tide me over..." Whatever. I know you weren't around when AL and Kid's League (extreme sidenote: is that still around by the way?) were started -- but I can assure you that I never saw anything other than enthusiasm from Instructors when it came to doing league.

Bottom line: (since this is now beginning to cut into my Orbitz time....)
I think instructors and instructor/coaches should be tipped if they are doing a good job and making your experience more valuable and enjoyable. Hell -- tip (some of,) the counter staff while you're at it
Seriously though -- it's like the stupid sign says -- it really isn't expected -- but it is appreciated and if the guys feel like you appreciate the extra mile they may be going -- they're going to keep going above and beyond. There's nothing unusual or sinister about that. It's human nature. We all like to know that we're appreciated.

Wow. I just became one of those people I generally really dislike on DZ.com. I wasted ten minutes writing that post. Oh well. I feel better - and I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of these forums: to give each of us a soapbox from which to vent our individual frustrations and opinions I'm going to go to the bonfire now and comment on someone's new haircut. Definitely time well-spent

_______________________________________

Oh, and one more thing...Ninjas ARE way cooler than pirates.

[Jewels 0]

By the way, I have tried to make clear and hope by now that everyone understands, my question was NOT a complaint about anything. League is *great*. We have learned a lot, had a lot of fun, made a lot of new friends and if it was not for league, I would not have tried the one lonely tandem I have to my name.

I don't want my original question to lead to a discussion that paints an inaaccurate picture of things. Life is good at SVCO. Please don't misconstrue this discussion to mean anything else. Thanks, too, to those people who have read this thread and understood--I just had a question!

TPM Sister #102

[Squeak 17]

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By the way, I have tried to make clear and hope by now that everyone understands, my question was NOT a complaint about anything. League is *great*. We have learned a lot, had a lot of fun, made a lot of new friends and if it was not for league, I would not have tried the one lonely tandem I have to my name.

I don't want my original question to lead to a discussion that paints an inaaccurate picture of things. Life is good at SVCO. Please don't misconstrue this discussion to mean anything else. Thanks, too, to those people who have read this thread and understood--I just had a question!

You Backstabbing trouble maker you

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Jewels 0]

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You Backstabbing trouble maker you

[diablopilot 2]

I know nothing about the "HD Adult league" at SVCO.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.