ISP questions

[livendive 8]

So I'm updating my student program to better mimic the ISP and am coming up with several questions. For starters, between the suggested diveflows in the ISP and the sign-offs on the 4-page A-card, it appears that the second jump in Category E is supposed to be their first solo ("unsupervised freefall") and should also involve disorienting maneuvers (suggested diveflow is backloops & frontloops, barrel rolls having been the first jump in Cat E). Is that how people are actually doing it in the field? I normally have the first solo be something pretty benign...e.g. turns & frequent altitude checks.

Also, though the text says that the choice between barrel rolls, backloops, and frontloops is instructor's discretion and the same one may be performed twice to meet the passing criteria of stability within five seconds, the A-card has a sign-off for each of the three, suggesting all three are required prior to advancement to Category F. True?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[JustChuteMeNow 0]

I think the disorienting manuevers were designed to show that the students could regain control during a freefall. If the students were able to show this and they could regain stability and atitude awareness within 5 seconds, I believe that they could be signed off for self-supervision assuming they also met the other criteria required for self-supervision.

This doesn't mean that the student automatically passes category E. However it means that any instructor from any discipline could begin working with the student.

Regarding the first solo I think that the students do their first solos in category D and like you stated they start with turns.

Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

The way we ran the four-page ISP aff program at Raeford, the student was not cleared to coaching jumps ( cats f,g, and h) until signed off to solo supervision at the completion of the cat e TLO's. I run my private program the same way here in Z Hills. "Coaches" are not qualified to take cat E students.

Chuck

[livendive 8]

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The way we ran the four-page ISP aff program at Raeford, the student was not cleared to coaching jumps ( cats f,g, and h) until signed off to solo supervision at the completion of the cat e TLO's. I run my private program the same way here in Z Hills. "Coaches" are not qualified to take cat E students.

Chuck

Yeah, I wasn't really asking about coaches on Cat E, but the A card does say "Prior to freefall self-supervision (typically after the first jump in Category E), all students must meet the standards listed in the USPA BSRs. Clearance to freefall self-supervision requires the endorsement of an appropriately rated USPA Instructor (signature in logbook). Under the supervision of a USPA Instructor, a USPA Coach may train only the freefall portions of Categories E-H."

It's just that the suggested diveflows include two disorienting manuever diveflows (barrel rolls on E-1, back & front loops on E-2) and the A-card requires frontloop, backloop, barrel roll, and "jump without FF supervision." To me, that suggests E-2 is supposed to be their first solo and include disorienting maneuvers, but that seems odd to me.

Edit to add: The way I read the card, self supervision is itself one of the TLO's of Cat E, not something that comes after finishing Cat E. If the sign-off was "cleared to self supervise" instead of "jump without FF supervision", it'd make a lot more sense to me.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

You are cleared to "self supervision" after completion of all the required cat E TLO's; not during the category. Cat E means barrel rolls, front loop, back loop, diving exit, solo poised exit. We ran Cat E as three jumps at Raeford, but would you can complete it in two jumps so long as one jump is a diving exit and the other is a solo poised exit. I don't have any problem whatsoever with "on the ball" students completing TLO's from multiple categories in one jump when possible. I have had plenty of students finish the nine (normal) ISP progression A thru E progression in seven jumps, but they are the exception. The bottom line is that your student must "check all the blocks" on Cats A thru E before being allowed to do unsupervised jumps and complete Cats F thru H with rated coaches or instructors. I use the four-page card and feel it is positively the best way to get your students trained without cutting corners.

Chuck Blue
Performance Skydiving
D-12501, AFF/SL/TM-I, PRO, S&TA

[popsjumper 2]

I agree with you, Dave. Cat E does have the requirement of one self-supervised freefall. However I have no problem at all with Chuck's extra consideration for safety in having them totally complete Cat E before being released for self-supervision.

On top of that, Cat E lists 3 jumps on the introduction page and only provides Dive Flows for 2 which could seem to say that he could do barrel rolls on one jump, frontloops on one jump, backloops on another and as long as he completes at least 2 maneuvers with recovery within 5 seconds on any 1 jump, he's good to go for self-supervision. But, in that case, where do you release him for self-supervision? After Jump 2? After Jump 3? Whenever he completes the 2 manuevers with recovery? What if that's not until Jump 6...do you make him do one more Cat E self-supervised?

Personally, I would release him for self-supervision after he proves to me, under direct supervision, that he can do the manuevers (all 3 of them) with recovery regardless of where in the Cat E progression he was. Like Chuck, hell if he was good enough to do it all in one jump, more power to him!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[livendive 8]

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On top of that, Cat E lists 3 jumps on the introduction page and only provides Dive Flows for 2 which could seem to say that he could do barrel rolls on one jump, frontloops on one jump, backloops on another and as long as he completes at least 2 maneuvers with recovery within 5 seconds on any 1 jump, he's good to go for self-supervision. But, in that case, where do you release him for self-supervision? After Jump 2? After Jump 3? Whenever he completes the 2 manuevers with recovery? What if that's not until Jump 6...do you make him do one more Cat E self-supervised?

On the A-card, in the notes between cats D & E, it says "Prior to freefall self-supervision (typically after the first jump in Category E). . ."

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)