FlyinseivLP2 0 #1 January 4, 2005 After reading another post, I was wondering if anyone is using non AFF JM's for IAF jumps in a tandem progression program. According to USPA a tandem instructor can be the JM on all the jumps, except the students first non tandem. I was just wondering if this was being utilized at any DZ's and what your opinion of this was. Not something that we do, I'm just wondering. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 January 4, 2005 I thought the wording was that a TI could take over on a SL/iAD progression at Cat D, and that the only instructor allowed to do any sort of harness hold student skydive is an AFF-I.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #3 January 4, 2005 The way I (and my boss, Tony Thacker, the mid-atlantic conference director) read it, only AFF-rated instructors may take harness hold grips on students not cleared for solo freefall. If they are not cleared from CAT E then you can't lay a finger on them on exit or in freefall unless you have an AFF rating. A guy with only a tandem rating has no business taking anyone on a single-jumpmaster harness hold (read: AFF) jump. I find it fascinating that some people (in the USA) would think otherwise. Chuck Blue D-12501 AFF/SL/TM-I, BMCI, PRO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 January 4, 2005 Quote A guy with only a tandem rating has no business taking anyone on a single-jumpmaster harness hold (read: AFF) jump. I agree! I feel like I'm a decent TI, but there's no f'n way I'm going to play that game. 1. I'm not trained to do it, 2. I don't have the rating and 3. That would be insanely dangerous for both myself and the student.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #5 January 5, 2005 After reading a bit it seems I was misinformed, but would also seem that the transition would be after Cat D. Cat E as I read it does not require a harness hold or any contact with the student with the student exit or otherwise. I could be wrong again but that is what I got from it. Seems there still maybe a grey area? This is the reason I posted this though. When I first read it when it came out, I and other were confused. Everyone had a different understanding of it. Then I was told second hand what one of the directors had said about it. After reading another post this subject came to mind and I thought I would see what people thought a couple of years later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #6 January 5, 2005 A guy with only a tandem rating has no business taking anyone on a single-jumpmaster harness hold (read: AFF) jump. I find it fascinating that some people (in the USA) would think otherwise. (quote)............................................................. But it's ok,the dzo said so and their DZO is some kind of legend of the sport, hell they invented it (harness holds) and make up their own brand of rating as well and don't belong to the USPA GM anyway so there for they can do what ever they want to do to the unknowing student. LOL, I seen them kind be-fo. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #7 January 5, 2005 You are exactly right with that one, brother! There are a lot of places in the USA that still do what ever the hell they please and don't give a shit what anyone else thinks about it. Still, that does not make it right. Just to save space I will respond back to my boy, Elviso, here as well. You are correct, Cat E is all solo exits and there is no real reason why a Coach or SL-I, or IAD-I wouldn't be able to do them in my mind, but we do not clear students off to "self supervision" and Cat F coaching (with Coaches or whatever Instructor is available) until they have performed aerobatics. This, of course, assuming one is following an AFF-based (or hybrid AFF/tandem) ISP system. The bottom line here is that no, it is not OK for someone without an AFF rating to take a student with two or three "training tandems" on a single JM harness-hold jump. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #8 January 5, 2005 YEA, there are a few that come to mind, I know at least 3 or 4 jumpers who failed to pass the AFF rating 3 times in a row, but are out there doing just this/" take a student with two or three "training tandems" on a single JM harness-hold jump." Even though some are USPA members and rating holders but jump at non GM dz's, it's ok to do it because the dzo said so. Their thinking is if it's so bad to do why haven't we killed anyone doing it.... ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
