Unstable 8 #1 November 14, 2004 Today, we had a Student making their Secod "First Freefall" jump who experienced a Nasty Horseshoe-type malfunction. I've seen my share of Student Malfunctions, but this is the first time I've had a student cutaway while under my supervision. It's a long story, but any sort of advice feedback would be GREATLY appreciated - Hopefully some newer IAD/SL instructors can learn from what happened today at the Kansas State University Parachute Club. The Student involved is a very enthusiastic and involved jumper working on his Static Line Progression. After completing three spotless PRCP's (Practice RipCord Pulls) last week, he made his first freefall last Sunday. On His first Freefall, he had to much of a turn on exit, and he was asked to Redo. (His Last Instructor Posts here on these boards, I hope He will come and share his insights as well). The Question for me was, Do I have him redo a Hop & Pop, or do I ask him to perform one more PRCP on the Static Line before trying the freefall again?? We (the instructors) took this issue straight to our friendly neighborhood S&TA, who recommended that the student just do his hop & pop. Concuring, I proceded to ready my student for a Hop & Pop. As the Title of this thread indicates, his jump was rather eventful. After gently pushing off the step into a backflip, the student tumbled unstable for about 500 feet, and then pulled on his side. As the Canopy deployed, the right riser became hung underneath the reserve container, and a quasi-horseshoe resulted. The canopy (A Manta 288) opened in a violent spin. My Student Executed rock-solid emergency procedures, and landed the Reserve right in the pea pit; Beautiful controlled landing as I hear (I was still in the aircraft working with another student). I saw his malfunction from the aircraft, I can still remember the every detail. As you can imagine with a riser caught unde the reserve container, the reserve pilotchute deployed through a line group from the main, and the main was found entangled with the reserve freebag. This has been truly bothering me. I had a Question, and I followed the advice of my S&TA, and I feel that I did the right thing here. What is bothering me is the unpredictability of this student's (OR ANY STUDENTS) actions. I saw his performance on his PRCP's, and I would never have imagined this happening to him. The more I work as an Instructor, the more I realize I really don't know jack... As a result, we are going to have a meeting (I will organize it here shortly) and discuss standardizing our procedures and policies for students repeating this particular skydive. Or maybe is this just part of being an Instructor?? Anybody with some advce or experiences that would help me understand the grand scheme of this, please enlighten me..... I sure hope somebody else can learn from this!=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #2 November 14, 2004 P.s. - This guy was shook up, and he took a few hours to himself to compose his feelings. After an extended lunch, he came back and wanted to get on the next available load. I was very happy to see him back, and his next jump was on me. I took him up again today, and he executed a beautiful PRCP. Right after the incident, I pulled him aside & we visited Instructor to Student about this. I let him know that this was a part of the sport, and I took him around and introduced him to all those at our DZ who have had similiar or even worse experiences while learning to skydive. I let him make the decision if he wanted to continue with the sport, and I'm glad that he understood the circumstances & made a mature decision to continue working towards his A-Lisence.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,063 #3 November 14, 2004 QuoteAfter gently pushing off the step into a backflip, the student tumbled unstable for about 500 feet Hang 'em from the strut.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #4 November 14, 2004 QuoteHang 'em from the strut. My apoligies, I wasn't as clear on this part as I should have been. Yes, Our dropzone trains our students hanging from the strut. This student was hanging from the strut, and instead of looking up, relaxing, and letting go into a nice hard arch, he had enough bend in his elbos to allow him to "push" himself off the strut. In in 7 previous jumps, none of the Instructors have seen him do this. I see this more often with lighter people who have a hard time leaning into the wind as they climb out - and they compensate by doing "pull-up"=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #5 November 14, 2004 This has been truly bothering me. I had a Question, and I followed the advice of my S&TA, and I feel that I did the right thing here. What is bothering me is the unpredictability of this student's (OR ANY STUDENTS) actions. I saw his performance on his PRCP's, and I would never have imagined this happening to him. The more I work as an Instructor, the more I realize I really don't know jack...*** boy.... I coulda wrote this..... same situation, different mal several years ago ..... student did awsome with his prcp's and was cleared for his hop n pop, we use a 206 with a rear cargo door, so there is no option for letting them hang. On his clear and pull, he proceded to do a style series... and pull while unstable, resulting in a line over, with lots of line twists....I never knew a manta could spin so fast.....I was also taking his friend charles up for a two way as he was on his 30 sec delays, its a very helpless feeling to sit there and hope they do as they were trained to do..... Charles looked at me as I was watching this unfolding drama, and asked " is that a malfunction"......... yep I said......shouldnt he be doing something he asked........ yep I replied..... about that time his training kicked in and he cut it away and had an uneventfull reserve ride... We require them to do their final static line and first freefall on the same day.... so he had already made one skydive that day...... the dope rope seems to build a dependency on it into some of the students minds and irregardless of how well they do on the static line, when its removed they blank out.....cause the safety net has been removed, and they now have to really pull for themselves.... I am not sure what cure there is for this using this training method...... ground preps only go so far..... Thankfully it seems to be a relatively rare occurance..... students can be a whole lot of fun to work with, and once in a while they can almost get you to fill your shorts..... expect the unexpected..... dont beat yourself up when you get the odd one out that tries really hard to give you gray hair.... RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JYorkster 0 #6 November 14, 2004 Sometimes we can't at all predict what a student will do on any given jump. However, waiting a week between the last PRCP and the first freefall could have contributed to the problem. According to the SIM, the last PRCP and first freefall should be the same day. Other than that, appreciate the fact that your emergency procedures training worked like a charm. Rock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #7 November 14, 2004 QuoteHowever, waiting a week between the last PRCP and the first freefall could have contributed to the problem. According to the SIM, the last PRCP and first freefall should be the same day. Once again, I wasn't very clear in my first post. He made his first freefall the week before, and the debate was to have him do another hop & pop because of a turn he had. I keep using the phrase "First Freefall" in place of Hop & pop.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 November 18, 2004 First of all, many students do worse on their first freefall than on their last practice pull. Secondly, unstable openings can snag main risers under the bottom corners of reserve containers. In the worst case, they can tear reserve containers off the harness. I have had to repair two rigs torn by students and three torn by licensed jumpers who dumped unstable. The only way packers can reduce this is ensuring that main risers lay straight down the sides of the container. Finally, do not beat yourself up over this. This is normal behaviour. Trick question: What is the difference between a young co-pilot and an old airline captain? The young co-pilot excitedly asks "What is it doing? What is it doing?" while the old captain says "Ho hum! There it goes again." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j3zz 0 #9 November 19, 2004 Not sure if this is a help or a hinderance but you can do everything right, The student can do all the PRCP's right and still go totally unstable when told to pull for themselves. I had this problem when I started eventually it put me in hospital on jump 19 and when I came back I did AFF. I still think that if it were not for AFF I might not be skydiving today. So I suppose everynow and again you will get a student who just cannot overcome sensory overload. I am sure this student will get over it but some will not. Keep up the good work Jezz "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
